<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">We don’t disagree as much as you think.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I think it is fine to use {qamuSHa’} for “I love you,” whenever sufficient context is known by the recipient of the expression. For that matter, a hug or a smile can convey the same thing. I’m not saying that Klingon requires a more specific expression, but if you are translating the expression for a third party, ignorant of the context, it would be good to either provide that context, or choose a different, more specific expression.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I’m just trying to convince people that they should not look at “I love you,” and say, “Oh yeah. In Klingon, that’s {qamuSHa’},” as a one-to-one, perfect, always applicable translation. Just provide the equivalent phrase and your work is done. Stop thinking. Just do it.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">My comment was particularly intended as a response to the suggestion that “I unhate you,” doesn’t really convey the meaning of “I love you.” If you intend to say, “I love you,” and you want to convey something that {qamuSHa’} doesn’t feel right for, then don’t use {qamuSHa’.} There are a LOT of alternatives that may more clearly express your personal meaning. Feel free to dig deeper and come up with the expression that is closer to your intent. In fact, you are probably doing a better job of translating what you mean when you say, in English, “I love you,” if you abandon the words and look into what you mean to express.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Actually, I recommend this in English, too. “I love you,” is less of an expression than it is a confirmation or affirmation of something both parties are already assumed to understand. The understanding doesn’t come from the expression. It comes from the context. The vagueness is rooted in the extreme dependency on context.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I often tell my wife that I love her. I also often go to the additional effort to more specifically express the elements of my feelings for her so that I don’t fall back on ritual and habit, confirming unexpressed, specific meaning, enabling me to drift away from actually loving her, continually confirming my affection for her while feeling it less intensely, until one day one of us has that sad moment of realization that we’d rather be with someone else or even be alone instead of continuing to be annoyed by the proximity and intimacy of this person we used to like a lot, but we can’t quite remember why.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I work, every day, at being clear about what I mean when I tell her that I love her. I still say it the vague, confirming expression, but I persistently push to state more specific appreciation, affection, respect, support, and the joys of her excellent company. I point out the positive changes to my life that are all her fault.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I don’t just say, “I love you,” and leave it at that, and I don’t recommend that one always says, {qamuSHa’} and thinks they have accomplished translation perfection. Job done. Move along. This is not the more specific expression that you are looking for.</div><br class=""><div class="">
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<div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Aug 14, 2019, at 10:32 AM, SuStel <<a href="mailto:sustel@trimboli.name" class="">sustel@trimboli.name</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/14/2019 10:17 AM, Will Martin
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:2EE5D023-98FB-4734-8A7B-FB6E2B195C7E@mac.com" class="">
<div class="">For many years I’ve argued about the use of
{qamuSHa’} for “I love you.” The problem is that “I love you,”
is completely dependent upon context to give it meaning.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">A mother means one thing when saying it to her
child, a different thing when saying it to her husband, a
different thing when saying it to a sibling, a different thing
when saying it to HER mother, a different thing when saying it
to a childhood friend, a different thing when saying it to her
dog, a different thing when saying it to her favorite TV star…
etc.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">The relationship and the circumstance give meaning
to an otherwise uselessly vague statement.</div>
</blockquote><p class=""><i class="">I love you</i> is not uselessly vague, as you have just
demonstrated. It is a phrase that has many meanings, given the
context. When your spouse does something nice for you and you feel
gratitude and say <i class="">I love you,</i> it means a very specific
thing. The words themselves don't convey the specificity, but both
of you know the exact meaning.</p><p class="">So who says this doesn't happen in Klingon? Why is Klingon
ultra-specific in your mind? I mean, sure, there's the bit in <i class="">Power
Klingon</i> about Klingon being accurate, not approximate, but
this doesn't have to apply to intimate moments like this. The
stuff in <i class="">PK</i> is all about how to maintain the respect of
the people and animals around you, not the finer points of Klingon
subtlety.<br class="">
</p><p class="">I don't necessarily think that <b class="">qamuSHa'</b> has a one-to-one
relationship with <i class="">I love you,</i> but if Jadzia does something
really nice for Worf, who feels gratitude, why can't he say <b class="">qamuSHa'</b>
and both of them know exactly what he is talking about?</p><p class="">Klingon actually has a lot of scope to be vague in very useful
ways. I once wrote a story in Klingon and when I was done I
realized I had not given a single clue to the reader about the sex
of any of the characters. Then I thought, <i class="">does it matter?</i>
My story wasn't really focused on character development. The
Klingons were just performing their duties.</p><p class="">Being specific is nice when you need to do it, but if you're
translating something that is already vague in the source
language, then it's perfectly fine — maybe even more faithful — to
keep it vague in the target language.<br class="">
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name/">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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