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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7/8/2019 1:54 AM, Lieven L. Litaer
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:76eb9193-4adc-4788-fa14-ac8bd8564e9f@gmx.de">Am
07.07.2019 um 19:35 schrieb SuStel:
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">We know that -lu' reverse the
object-subject,
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS GOOD AND HOLY, NO IT DOESN'T!
Everyone needs
<br>
to unlearn this falsehood immediately.
<br>
</blockquote>
[...]
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">The object always remains the object. The
only thing that changes is the
<br>
prefix used.
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
In your example you have replaced the prefix with the -lu-suffix.
In
<br>
that case, the object remains the same, of course.
<br>
<br>
What I man was:
<br>
<br>
vIlegh - I see him
<br>
vIleghlu' - he sees me
<br>
</blockquote>
<p>In this case you are talking about two completely different
semantic meanings. One would never replace <b>vIlegh</b> with <b>vIleghlu'</b>
in a sentence to make the subject indefinite, which is the point
of <b>-lu'.</b></p>
<p>Instead, what you've done is switched the subject and object
yourself, and then claimed that adding a <b>-lu'</b> did it.
Adding a <b>-lu' </b>simply erases the subject and triggers the
special-case prefixes.</p>
<p>Besides, <b>vIleghlu'</b> doesn't mean <i>he sees me,</i> it
means someone indefinite sees me. The <i>he</i> of the first
sentence isn't identified as the one who does it.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:76eb9193-4adc-4788-fa14-ac8bd8564e9f@gmx.de">
So, meaning reversed if {-lu'} is added. That's what TKD says:
<br>
Those prefixes which normally indicate
<br>
first- or second-person /subject/ [...] are used to indicate
<br>
first- or second-person /object/.
<br>
</blockquote>
<p>Yes, the prefixes are used "in a different way." This is not
"reversed," and TKD doesn't say "reversed." There is no reversing
going on. When you're using <b>-lu',</b> you use a different set
of prefixes than usual, a set that indicates "no subject" and
first-, second-, or third-person singular or plural object. You
look at your object and pick the correct prefix. There is no
subject/object switching going on.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:76eb9193-4adc-4788-fa14-ac8bd8564e9f@gmx.de">And I said
that I do. Each time anyone writes a theoretical possibility
<br>
about the grammar, you get upset and tell us not to do that.</blockquote>
<p>No I don't. I evaluate the logic of the argument and the evidence
given for it. If I find it unsupported, I say so. If I can see
evidence for it, I'll give my opinion of that evidence and whether
I think it supports the proposed possibility. If I find
overwhelming evidence for it, I'll endorse the possibility.</p>
<p>Like this time. mayqel asked about putting <b>-lu'</b> on
pronouns and I said I can find no reason why it couldn't be done
in certain cases. There is no direct evidence that it CAN be done,
so I'm not endorsing it, but as far as following the rules and
making semantic sense, I can find no issue with it.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:76eb9193-4adc-4788-fa14-ac8bd8564e9f@gmx.de"> But if you
<br>
set up a theory, you don't accept any contradiction.
<br>
</blockquote>
<p>If I propose something that I think makes sense but isn't
overwhelmingly supported, I certainly do accept contradiction.
When someone points out an unambiguous bit of canon, for instance,
that contradicts what I said, then that's that.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:76eb9193-4adc-4788-fa14-ac8bd8564e9f@gmx.de">
Let's just wait for Maltz' answer. There's no reason to keep
discussing
<br>
about such things if we don't know if it's right or not.
<br>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Oh, has Maltz been asked for an arbitration? Is that a thing now?
See, I don't get to ask Okrand for answers to our little spats
here, so all I have to go on is the evidence.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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