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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/21/2019 9:53 AM, mayqel qunen'oS
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAP7F2cL6Zy972hPOFfS3-N-HGxt=1x=vAuu2zZFsLKx5edTrjg@mail.gmail.com">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">There's something I don't understand, which perhaps has to do with the
fact that english is not my native language.
What's the difference between "all X" and "all of X" ?
Suppose I say {vIghro' Hoch mutmey}, which means "all species of the cat".
And now suppose I say {vIghro' mutmey Hoch}. which means "all of the
species of the cat".
Is there a difference in meaning between these two ? And if yes what ?
Because, I can't <b class="moz-txt-star"><span class="moz-txt-tag">*</span>feel<span class="moz-txt-tag">*</span></b> anything different between them.</pre>
</blockquote>
<p>First I'll explain the difference between <i>all X</i> and <i>all
of X.</i></p>
<p><i>All X</i> means there are multiple X's, and you're looking at
the set of all of them. <i>All of X</i> means there is one X and
you're considering every part of it.</p>
<p>In Klingon, according to rules Okrand has given us and rules
we've extracted from the canon, <b>Hoch Xmey</b> means <i>all X</i>
and <b>X Hoch</b> means <i>all of X.</i> <b>Hoch X</b> means <i>each
X:</i> there are multiple X's, and you're looking at all of them
one by one.</p>
<p>Now regarding your sentence <b>vIghro' Hoch mutmey.</b></p>
<p>Once again your noun-scoping defies my senses. I would say this <b>Hoch
vIghro' mutmey</b><i> all species of cat.</i> Here's why. In
your sentence, you're starting with <b>mutmey</b> <i>species.</i>
What kind of species? <b>Hoch mutmey</b><i> all species.</i> Fine
so far. But then you put another noun in front. What kind of all
species? Does that question even make sense? Well, it's the cat
kind of all species.</p>
<p>Here's what makes more sense. Start with <b>mutmey</b><i>
species.</i> What kind of species? C<i>at species, </i><b>vIghro'
mutmey.</b><i> </i>Which kind of cat species? All of them: <b>Hoch
vIghro' mutmey.</b></p>
<p>Now on to your actual question. What, if anything, would <b>vIghro'
mutmey Hoch</b> mean? Let's look at something a bit more obvious
first. <b>vIghro' pach</b><i> cat's claw.</i><b> vIghro' pach
Hoch</b><i> all of the cat's claw, every part of the cat's claw.</i></p>
<p>So what is every part of multiple species? It might be the same
as all species, but I rather think this is a phrase that wouldn't
be used. You wouldn't use <b>Hoch</b> after a plural countable
noun. Mass nouns are fine: <b>bIQ Hoch</b><i> all of the water,
every part of the water.<b> </b></i>Inherently plural nouns
might be fine if Klingon conceive of them as singular sets of
things, like <b>ngop Hoch</b><i> all of the set of plates.</i>
(In this case you might not say <b>Hoch ngop,</b> because you'd
be talking about every one of the only set of plates.)</p>
<p>In summary:</p>
<p><b>Hoch Xmey:</b><i> </i>the set of all countable X<br>
<b>Hoch X:</b> each member of the set of all countable X<br>
<b>X Hoch: </b>the entire portion of a single X or an uncountable
X<br>
<b>X HochHom:</b> most of the entire portion of a single X or an
uncountable X</p>
<p>By the way, some people try to use this incorrectly to mean <i>all
of X</i><i> </i>(they get tripped up by the English phrase <i>whole
X</i>):<br>
<i></i></p>
<p><b>X naQ:</b> an X that is not a partial X<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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