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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/17/2019 4:39 AM, Rhona Fenwick
wrote:<br>
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taH:<br>
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> The principle is this: <b>-Daq</b> tells you the
location at which the verb occurs,</p>
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> not, in this case, the destination of the action. When
we think of coming</p>
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> closer, we tend to think in terms of being the moving
entity heading</p>
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> toward the destination. I'm suggesting that we may have
that backwards:</p>
> we should think in terms of being the stationary entity,
watching the
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> moving entity coming closer to us.</p>
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<div style="background-color:#FFFFFF">When you say "we should
think...", are you pondering, or prescribing?<br>
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<p>I am describing "the principle by which I think it works."<br>
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The rest of your perspective makes good internal sense. I can't
fault it. (On the other hand, I can't see there are fewer
assumptions being made whether one treats
<b>chol</b> like <b>Sum</b>, or like <b>ghoS</b>.)
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<p><b>ghoS</b> works the way it does because it is one of those
verbs described in TKD that imparts an inherently locative sense
to its object. We have no evidence that <b>chol</b> is one of
those verbs, and the given translation does not suggest an object.
My only assumption is that a verb is not an inherently locative
verb unless we have a reason to think that it is.<br>
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<div style="background-color:#FFFFFF">jatlhpu' charghwI', jatlh:</div>
<div style="background-color:#FFFFFF">> SuStel’s suggestion
would work for either {Sum} or {ghoS}. Your</div>
<div style="background-color:#FFFFFF">> suggestion works with
{ghoS}, but not {Sum}.</div>
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<div style="background-color:#FFFFFF">I agree my suggestion
doesn't work with <b>
Sum</b> (though the nature of the verb precludes that
anyway), but with respect, I'm not sure SuStel's suggestion
does quite work for
<b>ghoS</b> either, because of the dual manner in which X-<b>Daq
ghoS </b>Y works depending on whether X-<b>Daq</b> triggers
object-agreement. An objectless usage (like the one SuStel
suggests for
<b>yuQDaq chol Duj</b>) can only ever mean "the ship is going
<u>on</u> the planet", and not "the ship is going
<u>to</u> the planet", when applied to <b>ghoS</b>, though
the distinction is only overt in the plural:
<b>yuQDaq lughoS Dujmey</b> "the ships are going to the
planet" (-<b>Daq</b> destination),
<b>yuQDaq ghoS Dujmey</b> "the ships are going on the planet"
(-<b>Daq</b> location).</div>
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<p>I'm not sure why everyone is trying to turn my suggestion into a
general rule or apply it to other verbs. I only suggested
something for the verb <b>chol,</b> and illustrated something
similar, but not identical, in the verb <b>Sum.</b><br>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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