<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">Okrand has consistently avoided using the words “transitive” or “intransitive”. He didn’t mark this sort of thing in TKD. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">It’s long been a frustration for me because I honestly believe that you can’t understand a verb well until you know its relationship with acceptable direct objects. The relationship between the verb and its direct object is part of the meaning of the verb, and most of the time, this is part of the definition of verbs that we don’t get from Okrand. We just have to watch for it in canon, and even then, it’s not always consistent.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">SuStel has long made this point from a different angle, and I’ve agued in favor of some kind of clarified, systematic approach, while he’s tended to defend a looser acceptance of a wider range of possibilities in terms of objects of verbs. Over time, I’ve worn down and just accept that we just do the best we can.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Maybe {qID} can use {‘e’} as its direct object. If you don’t like that, then you can treat it like one of the verbs that almost makes it to the list of speech words, but doesn’t quite. {qID Qanqor. jatlh <peng baHmeH qarDaSngan ‘ar poQlu’?>}</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I’m guessing that when Okrand includes an explicit noun in the gloss, it probably is similar to English verbs that have an implied direct object that can be stated explicitly, but doesn’t really need to. A moon orbits. What does it orbit. Well, it orbits a planet. That’s what makes it a moon. A moon doesn’t orbit a star. It would be a planet, if it did that.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">My spider sense tells me that someone is going to object to something I’ve said here.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Don’t think. Just click “Send”. Someone will be amused by the exchange.</div><br class=""><div class="">
<div dir="auto" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan<br class=""><br class="">rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.</div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class=""></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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<div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On May 8, 2019, at 5:19 AM, Lieven L. Litaer <<a href="mailto:levinius@gmx.de" class="">levinius@gmx.de</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="">Am 08.05.2019 um 10:30 schrieb De'vID:<br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">This is contradicted [...]<br class="">Another similar example, {tlhevjaQ wob}, is in KGT (where {wob} is<br class="">defined as "hurl a spear by means of a {chetvI'}"). OTOH {baH} is "fire<br class="">(torpedo, rocket, missile)"<br class=""></blockquote><br class="">It seems like Okrand is not really consistent with this, so my argument<br class="">does not have much weight indeed.<br class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">This is why Okrand always says "generally", "usually", "normally",<br class=""></blockquote><br class="">Yes, that's what I also said in a different thread.<br class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">The reason may be as simple as that Power Klingon came out in 1993, and<br class="">Okrand didn't make up {qID} [...] KGT in 1997.<br class=""></blockquote><br class="">Ah,. sorry, I messed that up. Thought it was older.<br class=""><br class=""><br class="">--<br class="">Lieven L. Litaer<br class="">aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany"<br class=""><a href="http://www.klingonisch.de" class="">http://www.klingonisch.de</a><br class="">http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/Jokes<br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">tlhIngan-Hol mailing list<br class="">tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org<br class="">http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org<br class=""></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></body></html>