<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">This is what I was responding to:<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">***************************************************************</div><div class="">tlhIngan Hol jatlhwI' ghaHpu' ghantoH pIn'a''e'; tlhoy valpu'mo',<br class="">tlhoy vaQpu'mo', 'ej tlhoy vumta'mo', tlhIngan Hol ghantoH naQ ta<br class="">chenmoHlaHpu', 'ej tlhoy varHa'pu'mo', latlhpu'vaD ghantoH taDaj<br class="">bonpu'.<br class=""><br class="">The master of Ca'Non was a speaker of klingon, so wise, so thorough,<br class="">that he managed to create an archive of the entire Ca'Non of klingon;<br class="">and because he was generous, he always shared his Ca'Non archive with<br class="">others.</div><div class="">***************************************************************</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I do not believe that this use of {tlhoy} in the Klingon works to produce the meaning implied by the English translation involved.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Ever since, there’s been a weird, slippery slope argument that never gets back to this simple observation that in this case, the author clearly misunderstands what {tlhoy} is supposed to mean. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">{tlhoy valpu’mo’} does not mean “so wise” because {tlhoy} does not mean “very much” or “impressively” or “to an extreme degree”. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">It means “to an excessive degree”. There’s a difference between “an extreme degree” and “an excessive degree”, and that’s the core element of meaning of the word {tlhoy}. It’s the thing that the original author obviously didn’t understand. He wants it to simply mean “a whole lot”, ignoring that it really does mean “too much”, and if you try to shave away the outer edge of meaning from “excessive” and “too much” in order to also cover “a lot” or “to an extreme degree”, then you basically don’t understand {tlhoy}.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">That was never acknowledged, and nobody else on this list bothered to respond to it, implying, I guess, that it’s close enough to right that we should just let it slide without comment, while getting into impassioned arguments plenty of other perhaps less obvious points of meaning.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">So, we go on and on and on with “Well, maybe this is or isn’t right, but if we change it a little for some other special situation, it’s still right, right?” over and over again, kicking the same dead horse without ever acknowledging that, well, actually, here in the beginning, this was definitely misusing the word {tlhoy}. Until that is fully and clearly acknowledged, I’ve completely lost interest in the topic.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Misuse it as you like. Don’t trust my opinion. Ignore any skill or authority I’ve exhibited over the past few decades on this list. Insist that you know this word better than I do. Make up all the special situations that you like to justify your obvious mistake, pretending that it wasn’t one and just continue arguing for the simple meanness of it.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The resulting text will, over time, stand or fall on its own. If you really think this is just my mistaken opinion, the long view will reveal who has a better perspective on this.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I don’t really care if I went “too far” trying to get a very stubborn person who clearly erred to understand the thing he still shows no evidence of having the slightest glimmer of comprehending. Amuse yourself, as you choose.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">A well-intended person should not have to work this hard to offer a simple spark of insight to the ignorant. It does not speak well for this list that it does.</div><div class=""><br class=""><div class="">
<div dir="auto" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan<br class=""><br class="">rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.</div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class=""></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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<div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Apr 22, 2019, at 11:54 AM, SuStel <<a href="mailto:sustel@trimboli.name" class="">sustel@trimboli.name</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/22/2019 11:36 AM, Will Martin
wrote:<br class="">
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<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:210B3BAC-D608-46DD-AAC2-EB0E31B8F734@mac.com" class="">Next time
you see Okrand, ask him about {tlhoy}. I dare you.</blockquote><p class="">Ask him what? It means <i class="">too much,</i> not <i class="">oh my god my
life is in ruins!</i></p><p class="">Your initial description was good, and then you went too far.
Perhaps you were demonstrating the concept of <i class="">too much?</i><br class="">
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name/">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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