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--></style></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>If telling people that they’re vague, wittering, and indecisive is your style, it probably deserves to be cramped.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>You still haven’t told us the source of the cultural rules you’re citing. Where do we find all this about being precise to represent a ballpark? How did it come to be incorporated into the structure of the language presented in TKD?</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>-- <br>SuStel<br>http://trimboli.name</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:willmartin2@mac.com">Will Martin</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Saturday, February 9, 2019 10:38 PM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:tlhingan-hol@kli.org">tlhingan-hol@kli.org</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [tlhIngan Hol] ordering and scope of adverbials relative totimestamps</p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>You keep saying what I can’t or shouldn’t say, suggesting that I am cramping everyone’s style, telling them what they cannot say in the language. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>You cramp my style telling me what I can’t say. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I’m just trying to explain why I think this particular kind of vague time stamp is so hard to translate in a way that we can generally agree on, and suggest an alternative: Skip the effort at translating an analog English phrase into Klingon by embracing its apparently digital nature. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>If I’m so wrong, why is this simple phrase so hard to translate?<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Sent from my iPhone. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>charghwI’ ‘utlh<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>On Feb 9, 2019, at 10:25 PM, Will Martin <<a href="mailto:willmartin2@mac.com">willmartin2@mac.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>A relative clause as a time stamp?<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Novel? Yes. And clever. I don’t know that it is disallowed, but I’m pretty sure it has no peer in canon. It boldly goes. I’ll give it that. <o:p></o:p></p><div id=AppleMailSignature><p class=MsoNormal>Sent from my iPhone. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Will<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>On Feb 9, 2019, at 10:08 PM, nIqolay Q <<a href="mailto:niqolay0@gmail.com">niqolay0@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 6:26 PM Will Martin <<a href="mailto:willmartin2@mac.com">willmartin2@mac.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p class=MsoNormal><br>In other words, I’m trying to explain to you why this phrase is particularly difficult to translate. <o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>The reason this phrase is particularly difficult to translate is because Maltz hasn't provided a word or idiom for referring to "almost a period of time". There are, after all, plenty of phrases that would be utterly taboo for a Klingon to utter that we can translate easily: <b>tera'nganpu' SuvvIp qeylIS. </b>The opening to TKW points out that aphorisms aren't always universal within their culture, and might be contradicted in other contexts by another belief or aphorism. I don't see why this same logic wouldn't apply to a remark Worf makes in the context of Klingon punctuality. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>It makes sense that a Klingon would try to avoid being approximate when telling you that a meeting is at such-and-such a time, because that connotes indecisiveness or an inability to control one's schedule. But there's no such indecisiveness when talking about something being "almost thirty years ago" or "approximately five meters". They're not leaving off the however-many decimal places because they can't make up their mind. They're leaving them off because the order of magnitude of the thing in question is what's important to the conversation, not the exact dimensions.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>As for the original topic, one idea might be to use a phrase like <b>wa' tlhoS naQbogh ben</b><i> One almost-complete year ago.</i> I'm not sure of the best way to use that construction for other "almost" measurements.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>tlhIngan-Hol mailing list<br><a href="mailto:tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org">tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org">http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>_______________________________________________<br>tlhIngan-Hol mailing list<br><a href="mailto:tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org">tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org">http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>