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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/21/2018 9:15 AM, mayqel qunenoS
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAP7F2c+DBCfpQ0bBTTxrxy26k-Cu=2PDGFCZ4aO-ez3EKXy=gQ@mail.gmail.com">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Suppose I write: {loSmaH wa' ben jIboghpu'} for "I am 41 years old".
Literally though, the klingon goes "41 years ago I have been born"
i.e. 41 years ago my "being born" has been completed.
Lets forget this for the moment..
If I write {wa'Hu' pItSa' vISoppu'}, this means that "one day ago my
eating the pizza has been completed". But I could have eaten this
pizza many days ago, and yesterday is just another day during which my
eating of the pizza continues to be completed.
So, can't the {loSmaH wa' ben jIboghpu'} be interpreted to mean, that
I am in fact older than 41, and that it is just that 41 years ago, my
birth (which took place way earlier) remains completed ?
So, why not write instead {loSmaH wa' ben jIbogh}, for "41 years ago I
am born", thus avoiding the ambiguity ?</pre>
</blockquote>
<p>You are interpreting Klingon <b>-pu'</b> as if it were English
present perfect tense, which it is not.</p>
<p>English present perfect tense means that I'm talking about a time
right now, and as of right now, the thing I'm talking about
happened in the past. <i>Happened in the past</i> tells you <i>when</i>
something happened; that means it's <i>tense.</i> Klingon doesn't
have verb tenses.</p>
<p>Klingon <b>-pu'</b> means that, whenever an action happens, it
is completed. The action is viewed as a complete unit, a whole
that has no visible internal temporal flow. <b>loSmaH ben
jIboghpu'.</b> Forty years ago, the action <b>bogh</b> occurred
and was completed.</p>
<p>When you do not use perfective or continuous aspects, the verb is
not perfective and not continuous. You're not just not mentioning
whether it's those things; it's specifically not those things. <b>loSmaH
ben jIbogh</b> means that you're in that moment of being born
forty years ago. The <b>bogh</b> is not yet complete and not an
ongoing action.</p>
<p>So no, you can't use <b>loSmaH ben jIboghpu'</b> to mean you're
42 or 50 or anything like that. <b>-pu'</b> doesn't mean <i>sometime
before the current time context;</i> it means <i>viewed as a
completed whole.</i></p>
<p>Okrand says in <i>The Klingon Dictionary</i> that for
consistency he will translate Klingon perfective into English
present perfect tense, and then he only does it about half the
time. We get lots of counterexamples, like <b>yaS vImojpu'</b><i>
I became an officer</i> (the becoming is done),<i> </i><b>De''e'
vItlhapnISpu'</b><i> I needed to get the INFORMATION </i>(the
need is over), <b>vIneHpu'</b><i> I wanted them</i> (the wanting
is over), <b>qaja'pu'</b><i> I told you</i> (the telling is
complete), <b>Qaw''eghpu'</b> <i>he/she destroyed
himself/herself</i> (the destruction is complete). There are
more.</p>
<p>So don't be fooled into thinking that <b>-pu'</b> is always
translated by <i>have/had/has verbed,</i> or that it means
exactly what those English phrases mean. English does not have
verbal perfective; Klingon does. Klingon does not have perfect
tenses; English does. They are not the same thing.</p>
<p><b>wa'Hu' pItSa' chab vISoppu'</b><i> Yesterday I ate a pizza.</i>
The eating happened yesterday, and it was completed.<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name" moz-do-not-send="true">http://trimboli.name</a>
</pre>
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