<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div></div><div><br></div><div>On Sep 7, 2018, at 17:49, SuStel <<a href="mailto:sustel@trimboli.name">sustel@trimboli.name</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/7/2018 5:49 PM, Daniel Dadap
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:B9B9D5F8-160A-4704-8AA8-2F4778840308@dadap.net">
<pre wrap="">I had always thought that the distinction between {'oH} and {ghaH} was the same as the distinction between {bIH} and {chaH}, i.e., that {ghaH} is reserved for beings capable of language. It would seem natural that the singular and plural third-person pronouns would be divided up the same way, but it was recently pointed out to me that TKD never actually says that {‘oH} is for things and beings that are incapable of languages, or that {ghaH} is exclusively for language-capable beings. But just because that would seem natural doesn’t mean that it is so.</pre>
</blockquote>
<p>It's an interesting observation. If correct, what's the
difference between <b>ghaH</b> and <b>'oH?<br>
</b></p>
</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>That’s exactly the question I’m asking. I’ve long thought the difference was (and I’m guessing most Klingonists think of it as):</div><div><br></div><div>ghaH - single language capable being</div><div>'oH - single non-language capable being or inanimate object</div><div><br></div><div>But since TKD never actually says this is the case, it seems possible to interpret the difference as:</div><div><br></div><div>ghaH - single animate being (language capable or not)</div><div>'oH - single inanimate object</div><div><br></div><div>The difference could be something other than the above two options, but I’m not creative enough to think of another alternative.</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><p>To support the idea, you need to find somewhere in canon that
uses <b>ghaH</b> or <b>'oH</b> in a way that shows that
difference: some being capable of using language being referred to
as <b>'oH,</b> or something not a being capable of using language
being referred to as <b>ghaH.</b></p></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Agreed. I’d be interested to see if there are any canon examples to provide stronger evidence of one interpretation or the other. I don’t think that {'oH} for a language capable being would be something we’d look for, though, since I’m not creative enough to come up where an interpretation where a language capable being would be anything other than {ghaH}. What we want to look for is pronominal references to animate beings that are not language capable, like a targh or a bo'Degh or whatever. {'oH} would imply that it has to do with whether the referent is capable of language, and {ghaH} would imply that it has to do with whether the referent is animate.</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<p>Personally, I think Okrand just assumed that the difference
between <i>it</i> and <i>he/she/him/her</i> showed up the
difference well enough. It's the fact that English <i>they/them</i>
can cover plural <i>it</i> as well as <i>he/she/him/her</i> that
warrants special mention of the difference between <b>bIH</b> and
<b>chaH,</b> not the exclusivity of the capable-of-using-language
status of the words.<br>
<b></b></p>
</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Sure, but he/she/him/her doesn’t necessarily indicate language capability in English. Non-language capable beings can be hes and shes and hims and hers.</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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