<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)">
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
span.EmailStyle17
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">And then there are the size qualities
<b>woch</b> <i>be tall</i>, <b>jen</b> <i>be high</i>, <b>tIq</b> <i>be long/lengthy/extended</i>,
<b>run</b> <i>be short</i>, etc. when used with measurements in comparisons :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> cha’ ’ujmo’ jIH woch law’ SoH woch puS
</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><br>
I'm two <i>'ujes</i> taller than you. (Lieven < MO, 7/25/2016)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Presumably they all work the same.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">--Voragh<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> De'vID<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 25, 2018 4:28 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:4.0pt">So apparently there's a lot of confusion about the verb {'ab}, which I learned about from the Duolingo message board, and this was discussed at the {qep'a'}. Since I wasn't there, I don't know exactly what was
said, but the claim was made that {'ab} can be used to measure either the height or the length of a spaceship, and that to disambiguate, another verb (like {woch}) has to be used. It's apparently also believed by some that {'ab} always measures the longer
dimension.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:4.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:4.0pt"><a href="https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/28106303">https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/28106303</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:4.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:4.0pt">I don't believe the above is true. I think {'ab} refers unambiguously to height, {'aD} to length, and {juch} to width. Furthermore, canon shows that {'ab} can be a shorter measurement than {'aD} on the same object,
specifically a spaceship.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:4.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">I think the confusion stems from the definition of {'ab}, which was given in a msn newsgroup message dated Oct. 22, 1997:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:4.0pt"><a href="http://klingonska.org/canon/1997-10-22-news.txt">http://klingonska.org/canon/1997-10-22-news.txt</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:4.0pt"><There are two words used for length: {'aD} and {'ab}. Both of these can be translated "have a length of," but they are used somewhat differently. {'aD} is used in contrast with {juch} "have a width of" in measuring,
say, a tabletop. {'ab}, on the other hand, is used for (potentially) longish, skinnyish things (for example, spears) and also for heights.><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:4.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">The message then goes on to give the following examples:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:4.0pt">{jav 'ujmey 'ab SuvwI'} "the warrior has a length of six ujs" (about 6'10")... This might sound a little more natural as "the warrior stands six ujs" or"the warrior is six ujs tall." <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:4.0pt">{vagh 'ujmey vI'ab} "I have a length of five ujs" (about 5'8") or "I'm five ujs tall"<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:4.0pt">{wej 'uj 'ab naQjej} "the spear has a length of three uj" (about 3'5") or "the spear measures three uj" or "the spear is three uj long"<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:4.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:4.0pt">We also have the following examples from the Klingon Bird of Prey poster:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:4.0pt"><span style="color:#1F497D"><br>
</span>{loSmaH jav vI' Soch loS 'uj 'ab meH} "Bridge Height: 16.28M"<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:4.0pt">{HIvtaHvIS toQDuj cha'vatlh wejmaH Soch vI' vagh chorgh 'uj 'ab 'oH} "Attack Formation Height: 82.75 M"<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:4.0pt">{qughtaHvIS toQDuj HutmaH vI' jav wa' 'uj 'ab 'oH} "Cruise Formation Height: 31.56 M"<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:4.0pt">{SaqtaHvIS toQDuj wa'vatlh loS vI' jav chorgh 'uj 'ab 'oH} "Landing Formation Height: 36.46 M"<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:4.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:4.0pt">On the same poster, we also have this one example of {'aD}:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:4.0pt;background:white"><span style="color:#1F497D"><br>
</span>{wejvatlh loSmaH loS vI' vagh wej 'uj 'aD Duj} "Length: 120 M"<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:4.0pt"><br>
Note that the Bird of Prey is much longer than it is tall. Nevertheless, {'aD} measures its length, and {'ab} measures its height (which varies depending on the flight mode, but is always less than its length). Though it's not given, presumably {juch} measures
the wingspan.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:4.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:4.0pt">There's also this from SkyBox card 32:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:4.0pt"><span style="color:#1F497D"><br>
</span>{wej 'ujmey 'ab 'oy'naQ.} "Painstiks are a little over one meter long."<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:4.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">So we have the following:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:4.0pt">height: {'ab} (head to toe of person, top to bottom of starship or table, tip to other end of spear or painstik)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:4.0pt">length: {'aD} (one dimension of tabletop, fore to aft of starship)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:4.0pt;background:white">width: {juch} (other dimension of tabletop, wingspan of starship)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:4.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:4.0pt">The way I think about this is that height is always {'ab}, length is always {'aD}, and width is always {juch}. However, Klingons think of stick-like things as having height (i.e, as if they were being held upright
by a person), rather than having length (as English-speakers do). I think the way Okrand gave the definition of {'ab} by putting "length" first (but only of longish, skinnyish things) is confusing. This is made worse by his examples, which says that the warrior
has a length of six ujs. I think the way it should've been explained is in the other direction: that a spear or painstik is so many ujs *tall*. Nevertheless, the examples make clear that {'ab} refers to the height of a spaceship, {'aD} to its length, and {'ab}
can be used even if it refers to the shorter dimension.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:4.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:4.0pt">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:4.0pt">De'vID<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>