<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div></div><div><br></div><div><br>On Jun 13, 2018, at 02:00, Rhona Fenwick <<a href="mailto:qeslagh@hotmail.com">qeslagh@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div id="divtagdefaultwrapper" style="font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif, "EmojiFont", "Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji", NotoColorEmoji, "Segoe UI Symbol", "Android Emoji", EmojiSymbols;" dir="ltr"><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div dir="auto">jangpu' Daniel, jatlh:<br>
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<div dir="auto">> Do you mind sharing the counterexample, if it’s not too much trouble,</div>
<div dir="auto">> and explaining how it’s problematic?<br>
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<div dir="auto">The relevant example is from S26:</div>
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<div>DuraS tuq tlhIngan yejquv patlh luDub 'e' reH lunIDtaH DuraS be'nI'pu'</div>
<div>lurSa' be'etor je.</div>
<div><span>"The sisters of the House of Duras, Lursa and B'Etor, are constantly seeking</span></div>
<div><span>a higher standing for the House of Duras within the Klingon High Council."</span></div>
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<div>The relevant part of the clause is {'e' reH lunIDtaH DuraS be'nI'pu'}, and the problematic aspect of it is that not only does the adverb follow the object {'e'}, but a verb governing {'e'} should also not take Type 7 suffixes.</div>
<div><br></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Okay, thanks for sharing that. I’m willing to look past the the rules about word order and allowed suffixes being broken, since it doesn’t seem to affect the meaning. I see now that “problematic” refers to breaking established rules rather than being unclear in how to interpret the meaning. Nevertheless, I see no need to break those rules myself and hold up S26 (which I now understand to mean Skybox card number 26, I saw a lot of S# citations and didn’t understand what they were) as justification.</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div id="divtagdefaultwrapper" style="font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif, "EmojiFont", "Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji", NotoColorEmoji, "Segoe UI Symbol", "Android Emoji", EmojiSymbols;" dir="ltr"><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><div dir="auto"><div>
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<div>taH: <br>
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<div dir="auto">> I think I can change this to:
<div>> chomuSHa' wa'logh 'e' Daja'qangpu'</div>
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<div>And here we run into the other problem from the very same SkyBox example. TKD section 6.2.5 notes that Type 7 suffixes are not possible on a main verb governing {'e'}.<br>
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<div><br></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Okay, now that I know that rule, I think I can just rephrase as a direct quotation:</div><div><br></div><div>wa'logh choja'pu', “bang, qamuSHa'qu'”</div><div>jIHvaD “not nuchev vay'” Daja' je.</div><div><br></div><div>My concern would be that I’m uncertain how clear the quotation aspect would come across in spoken/sung form, without punctuation.</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div id="divtagdefaultwrapper" style="font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif, "EmojiFont", "Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji", NotoColorEmoji, "Segoe UI Symbol", "Android Emoji", EmojiSymbols;" dir="ltr"><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><div dir="auto"><div>
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<div><span style="font-size: 12pt;">qay'be'qu'. And don't take it too much to heart. Using {wI-} in place of {DI-} in particular is a mistake that even highly experienced Klingonists still make from time to time.</span></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Believe me when I say that I’m far from the point where I will take any criticism of my use of Klingon personally. :)</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div id="divtagdefaultwrapper" style="font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif, "EmojiFont", "Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji", NotoColorEmoji, "Segoe UI Symbol", "Android Emoji", EmojiSymbols;" dir="ltr"><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div dir="auto"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">I’m not certain</span></div>
<div dir="auto">> what you mean by a rhyming translation: could you please elaborate?</div>
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<div dir="auto">Ah, that's my mistake. I was suggesting you have a shot at developing your Klingon rendition into a rhyming one following the original song, but I've never heard the full English lyrics, and was presuming from the chorus (whose lyrics I do know)
that the second and fourth lines of each verse rhymed too. But although the second and third verses do have slant rhymes in this position ("same"/"day", "between"/"my dreams"), the first verse apparently has no rhyme at all ("arms"/"cried").</div>
<div dir="auto"><br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Oh, I didn’t realize you were referring to this very work. I thought perhaps there was some pool of texts that was wanting for rhyming translations that you were suggesting I could take a crack at.</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div id="divtagdefaultwrapper" style="font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif, "EmojiFont", "Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji", NotoColorEmoji, "Segoe UI Symbol", "Android Emoji", EmojiSymbols;" dir="ltr"><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><div dir="auto">
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<div dir="auto">QeS 'utlh<br>
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