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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/21/2018 1:29 PM, mayqel qunenoS
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:abvc561gvh74j89qpbvuktep.1521652646050@email.android.com">
<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0;">SuStel:</p>
<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0;">> In {YvaD
X VmoH X}, X is the causer and the</p>
<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0;">> done-to,
which isn't one of those combinations</p>
<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0;">> that I
think requires a reflexive suffix. It seems</p>
<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0;">> a correct
construction.</p>
<br>
<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0;">I think I
understand your point, but there is something which still
confuses me.</p>
<br>
<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0;">How can we
write {YvaD X VmoH X}, since there is no verb prefix to use,
when both the subject and the object are the same person/persons
?</p>
<br>
<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0;">In the verb
prefix chart, when the subject and the object are the same
person/persons, then we have a dash (-), which means that we
can't write {YvaD X VmoH X}.</p>
<br>
<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0;">So, if we
needed to write a sentence as "the vulcans caused the federation
to accept them", then we can't write it in the form {YvaD X VmoH
X}, and we can't use {-'egh} or {-chuq}, so we need to recast.</p>
<br>
<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0;">Would you
agree with the above ?</p>
</blockquote>
<p><i>The Vulcans</i> is just a third-person noun. If {YvaD X
PRE-VmoH X}, then PRE is the null prefix: X is either the singular
third-person, in which case you've got singular, third-person
subject and singular, third-person object (null prefix) or you've
got plural, third-person subject and plural, third-person object
(null prefix).</p>
<p>You can't use this to say something like <i>I caused you to
accept me</i> because of the problem you're pointing out: <i>jIH</i>
can't be both subject and object (because there is no possible
prefix for this combination, not even the null prefix).</p>
<p>Which is how we get to recasting. If something is possible to say
only in the third person, that's a good sign to me that it could
do with a bit of work, even if it's otherwise legal.<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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