<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"></head><body><div>Thanks very much for clarifying, the difference is clear to me now :)</div><div><br></div><div>ghItlhjaj</div><div><br></div><div id="composer_signature"><div style="font-size:85%;color:#575757" dir="auto">Envoyé depuis mon smartphone Samsung Galaxy.</div></div><div><br></div><div style="font-size:100%;color:#000000"><!-- originalMessage --><div>-------- Message d'origine --------</div><div>De : "Lieven L. Litaer" <levinius@gmx.de> </div><div>Date : 02/02/2018 08:13 (GMT+01:00) </div><div>À : tlhingan-hol@kli.org </div><div>Objet : Re: [tlhIngan Hol] be responsible </div><div><br></div></div>Am 01.02.2018 um 17:50 schrieb SuStel:<br>>> [ngoy'] is also listed as meaning "be responsible"<br>[...]<br>>> What's the difference between [rang] and [ngoy'] in meaning and usage?<br><br>ja' SuStel:<br>> I'm going to guess the difference is in the object it can use. You can <br>> say *Duj rang HoD* but not **Duj ngoy' HoD,* though you can say *Duj <br>> rang HoD; ngoy' HoD.* But then, you can also say just *rang HoD.* I <br>> wonder if Okrand forgot we had *ngoy'.*<br><br>I asked, and he did not. He explained what you said, that {rang} can <br>have an object, and from his explanation, I also read that rang should <br>not be used as an adjective. Say {Duj rang HoD ngoy} "The responsible <br>captain is rsponsible for his ship".<br><br>Here's the entire message:<br>----begin quote---------------------<br>I knew about {ngoy'} (so did Maltz).<br><br>The grammatical difference is that {rang} can take an object (the thing <br>the subject is responsible for) -- and it would be weird for it not to <br>have an object -- while {ngoy'} can't.<br><br>{rang} means things like "be in charge of, have authority over." {ngoy'} <br>means things like "be accountable, be answerable." It can also be used <br>to mean "be responsible" in the sense of "be trustworthy, sensible, <br>dependable."<br><br>So a boss is responsible for his/her workers' actions (or responsible <br>for the factory or whatever); he/she is in charge of the workplace, has <br>authority over the workers, maybe is controlling the workers. This is <br>{rang}.<br><br>If something goes wrong, who's to blame? Who's accountable? Whom do the <br>higher-ups come down hard on? The boss -- because he/she is the <br>responsible party ({ngoy'}).<br><br>As the use of {ngoy'} in the TKW example shows, however, the meanings <br>overlap, so the choice may be based on what the rest of the sentence is <br>(is there an object or not?), not just meaning.<br><br>----end quote-----------------------<br><br>-- <br>Lieven L. Litaer<br>aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany"<br>http://www.klingonisch.de<br>http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/Maltz<br>_______________________________________________<br>tlhIngan-Hol mailing list<br>tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org<br>http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org<br></body></html>