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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/28/2018 9:51 AM, mayqel qunenoS
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAP7F2cKXRWthuqbsYEjJBr5CZ7xm3CgZHmooptRrUiLohazAmA@mail.gmail.com"><span
style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">SuStel:</span>
<div dir="auto"><span
style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">> My
objection is the same whichever phrase you use.</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span
style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><br>
</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span
style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">I'm rather
confused.</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span
style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><br>
</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span
style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">Reading this
thread, I understood the reasons which would raise objections
with regards to the use of {maH Hoch}. And in particular, how
the {maH Hoch} violates the accord rule.</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span
style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><br>
</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span
style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">But I can't
understand which rule is violated by {Hoch maH}. Is it
ungrammatical or wrong ? And if yes, how ? Reading this
thread, I can't understand how its use could be considered
wrong.</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span
style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><br>
</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span
style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">Don't
misunderstand me; I'm not arguing just to argue. I sincerely
can't understand how the {Hoch maH} could be considered wrong.</span></div>
</blockquote>
<p>Read my message again. My objection is not to whether <b>Hoch
maH</b> or <b>maH Hoch</b> means "we all" or "all of us"; it's
whether you can use such a phrase wherever a casual speaker of
English would say "we all" or "all of us." In English, the phrase
is often used with no distinction whatsoever from "we" or "us."
When translating from English, if you're translating "we all" or
"all of us" with no distinction from "we" or "us" to <b>Hoch maH
</b>or <b>maH Hoch,</b> you've just run into my objection. You're
just copying an English dialect, not speaking genuine Klingon.</p>
<p>I don't know if you'll get the following, since you're not a
native speaker, but I'll give it a shot. In every dialect of
English I've ever heard that employs "we all", "you all," or
"y'all" in this sense, there is a distinction of stress made
between a throwaway phrase and an actual distinction of number. If
one says "WE all," stressing the "we," then the "all" is just a
dialectical affectation, and has no meaning in the sentence; you
could just drop it. If one says "we ALL," stressing the "all,"
then the "all" is there to make clear that we are talking about
ALL of us, not just some of us.</p>
<p>The same obtains with "you all": "YOU all" and "y'all" have no
actual "all" meaning; "you ALL" is making a distinction between
all of you and only some of you. There are some dialects of
English that have almost completely dropped "you," even singular
"you," in favor of "y'all"; these mean both just "you" and "all of
you, not some of you." But outside these dialects, this
distinction is made with stress.<br>
</p>
<p>As for what exactly <b>Hoch maH</b> and <b>maH Hoch</b> mean:
it's not clear. <b>Hoch maH</b> might be as ungrammatical as <i>all
of the usses.</i> Or it might mean exactly what you think it
means. Since there is a noticeable lack of canonical examples
combining any quantity noun with any pronoun, we can't predict
what it means, if it means anything at all. Given this total lack
of information, I have to advise emulating known canon rather than
constructing a questionable phrase and using it constantly.<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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