<div dir="auto">However {tullaH neH} doesn't mean "only are able to hope". It means "merely are able to hope". And I think the intended meaning is the former.<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">~ nI'ghma</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Jan 10, 2018 17:12, "Doug Henning" <<a href="mailto:likethemagician@gmail.com">likethemagician@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">I suspect that <font face="monospace, monospace">wilyam SeQpIr</font> might also have gone the all-verbs route with <b><font face="monospace, monospace">vor'eghmeH bechwI' tullaH neH.</font></b><div><br></div><div>Doug<br><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 12:26 PM, Steven Boozer <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sboozer@uchicago.edu" target="_blank">sboozer@uchicago.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I know it’s not the same as hope, but try the noun {chabal} “something desired” which is what *<b><i>les miserables</i></b>* desperate long for:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">[Lieven < MO (qepHom 2015 p.12)]: “wish list” is {chabal tetlh}. {chabal} is something desired or requested. There also is a verb “to wish”, as in “I wish I
could” … {jIn}: {tlhIngan jIH 'e' vIjIn} “I wish I were a Klingon”. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Not to quibble, but instead of {Do'Ha'wI’} “the unfortunate/unlucky one(s)” – is that why they’re miserable? -- also consider {bechwI’} “the suffering one(s)”.
{SIQwI’} “he/she/they who endure/bear [something]” might also work if it were not for the word’s positive associations for Klingons:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> SIQwI' lu'oy'moHmeH juppu'Daj 'oy'naQmey lo' chaH. SuvwI' qa' patlh<br>
veb chavlaHmeH tlhIngan lo'chu' chaH. toDujDaj toblu'.<br>
The Painstik is employed by friends of the recipient who use the devices to<br>
inflict pain in a manner which will allow the Klingon to attain a higher<br>
state of spirituality as a warrior, proving his mettle. (S32)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> 'oy' DaSIQjaj
<br>
May you endure the pain! PK<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><br>
yIn DayajmeH 'oy' yISIQ. <br>
To understand life, endure pain. TKW<br>
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<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">--Voragh<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Felix Malmenbeck<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal">"Hope" is a weird word in English (and many other languages), because it refers both to an emotion and to the possibility that that hope will actually will come true: "A new hope" doesn't just mean "a new wish that something will happen",
but some means by which it might.<br>
That being said, I think "the act of hoping" or "the ability to hope" works quite well in this instance, if we're talking about the mental effect of having not given up.<br>
<br>
As such, you could replace «tul» with something like:<br>
<span style="color:#1f497d"> </span>tullaHghach<br>
<span style="color:#1f497d"> </span>tulqangghach<br>
<span style="color:#1f497d"> </span>tulmeH meq<br>
<span style="color:#1f497d"> </span>tultaHghach<br>
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<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> De'vID
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<p class="MsoNormal"> I'm trying to recover the original Klingon of this line from Measure for Measure.
<span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"> </span>wa' Hergh neH lughaj Do'Ha'wI': tul.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Suggestions? (I'm uncomfortable with the fact that {tul} is a verb whereas {Hergh} is a noun.)<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">De'vID<u></u><u></u></p>
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