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> {Qapla' tlhorghmoH lujpu'ghach'e'}<br>
<br>
I think that’s excellent; of course, success is naturally delicious, but it’s flavor that really brings out the flavor.<br>
One might also consider «jejmoH», but I think that might obscure the meaning a bit.<br>
<br>
I also think -ghach works very nicely here; the ability to distinguish betweeen «lujtaHghach» and «lujpu’ghach» plays to the language’s strengths.<br>
<br>
That being said, I do think there is one more interpretation of the phrase that is worth considering: That it’s the *possibility* of failure that makes success so sweet, rather than previous experiences of failure:<br>
<br>
«Qapla’ tlhorghmoH lujlaHghach’e’.»<br>
«lujlaHbe’chugh vay’, tlhorghbe’ Qapla’.»<br>
<br>
(Compare with the saying «bIlujlaHbe’chugh bIQaplaHbe’.»)<br>
<br>
//loghaD
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org> on behalf of Aurélie Demonchaux <demonchaux.aurelie@gmail.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, December 3, 2017 8:37:10 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> tlhingan-hol@kli.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor</font>
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<div class="gmail_default"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">I'd like to suggest also using {tlhorgh}, since according to the KGT:</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">To the Klingon palate, the best food tastes {tlhorgh} ("pungent," though some non-Klingons may prefer to translate the word as "rank" or "gamy")</font></blockquote>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
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<div class="gmail_default"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">So we could have:</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
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<div class="gmail_default"><font face="times new roman, serif">{Qapla' tlhorghmoH lujpu'ghach'e'}</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">It is failure that makes success pungent/delicious.</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Or, since verbs are generally preferred in Klingon:</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="times new roman, serif">{bIQappa' bIlujchugh, reH tlhorghqu' Qapla'}</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">If you fail before you succeed, success is always very pungent/delicious</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">What do you think ?</font></div>
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<div class="gmail_quote">2017-12-03 4:57 GMT+01:00 nIqolay Q <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:niqolay0@gmail.com" target="_blank">niqolay0@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br>
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<div class="gmail_quote"><span class="">On Sat, Dec 2, 2017 at 9:14 PM, kechpaja
<span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kechpaja@comcast.net" target="_blank">kechpaja@comcast.net</a>></span> wrote:
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<span class="m_4223730130895383546gmail-"></span>Given how Klingon seems to work, I've been trying to avoid both {-ghach}<br>
and {-bogh} unless I decide that I really need them, since so many<br>
things (especially proverbs of this sort) that in English use<br>
nominalized verbs and relative clauses tend to skip them in Klingon. </blockquote>
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<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default">I could have sworn there was canon about how {-ghach} itself was a marked suffix that draws attention to itself (which is why I mentioned avoiding it), but it looks like using {-ghach}
without suffixes is what's marked (<a href="http://klingonska.org/canon/1994-09-holqed-03-3-a.txt" target="_blank">http://klingonska.org/canon/<wbr>1994-09-holqed-03-3-a.txt</a>), and that {-ghach} itself seems to be fine. I thought I knew canon better than
that. {Hu'tegh!} Anyway, sometimes using {-ghach} too much can suggest that you just got lazy and didn't try to think about your sentence, but there's nothing inherently wrong with it, especially if it's the best fit for your sentence.<br>
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<div>{-bogh} is wholly uncontroversial. A look through "The Klingon Way" shows plenty of relative clause
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline" class="gmail_default">
s in proverbs.</div>
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I'm<br>
also trying to work around English-style phrasings such as "give<br>
something a flavor". </blockquote>
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<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default">It's good to be aware of Englishisms in your translations, but I'm not sure "give something a flavor" is inherently too English-y. Flavor is a thing, and things can be given. It's a
metaphorical sort of giving, maybe, but the whole expression is a metaphor. As an alternative to {nob}, {ghajmoH} is pretty basic but serviceable. I also like De'vID's suggestion of {chel}.<br>
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<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Qapla' 'eymoHbogh ghevI' 'oH lujlu'ghach'e'.<br>
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<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default">This is fine; it's pretty much the first thing I thought of. (I went with {lujpu'ghach'e'} myself, but {-lu'} also makes sense.)<br>
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<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Or maybe this:<br>
<br>
Qapla' 'eymoHbogh ghevI' bIH Qaghmey'e'.<br>
<br>
I may end up going with the last one; {Qagh} is about as close as<br>
Klingon has to a non-{-ghach} noun for "failure".<br>
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<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default">I wouldn't use {Qagh} "mistake" as a synonym for failure. {pIqarD HoD} says it better than I could:
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TCX90yALsI" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?<wbr>v=1TCX90yALsI</a> (That's a pretty Klingon sentiment too... a first attempt at a translation: {Qaghbe'chugh vay', vabDot lujlaH vay'. puj 'oHbe'. yIn 'oH.})
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<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default">You could get even shorter, depending on what parts of the original you're willing to drop and how much of the metaphor you want to leave implied:</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default">{Qapla' ghevI' 'oH lujpu'ghach'e'} "Failure is the sauce of success."</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default">{Qapla' 'eymoH lujpu'ghach'e'} "Failure makes success delicious."</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default"><br>
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<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default">{lujpu'ghach jablu'DI' je reH QaQqu' Qapla' nay'} "Success is a dish best served with failure." (This has very little to do with the original phrasing, but the food metaphor made me
want to riff on the familiar Klingon proverb.)</div>
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