<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Thanks very much for your replies !</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I'll remember to avoid {'e' X-lu'} in the future.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Now I wonder, what about {'e' X-vay'} ? can/should it be used when we have an indefinite subject? Does it add a nuance somehow or is "net" the preferred solution in all cases?</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">For instance:</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">qama'pu' DIHoHbe' 'e' Sov vay' : someone knows we don't kill prisoners</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Satlho'!</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">ghItlhjaj </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2017-11-30 21:34 GMT+01:00 SuStel <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sustel@trimboli.name" target="_blank">sustel@trimboli.name</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><span class="">
<div class="m_-3937266412578357402moz-cite-prefix">On 11/30/2017 2:12 PM, Aurélie
Demonchaux wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Today I am
trying to grasp the difference between {net + verb} and {'e' +
verb-lu'}</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">The way I
understand it is, for example with "Sov"</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">net Sov = it is
common knowledge that </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">'e' Sovlu' =
someone (indefinite) knows that</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Thus:</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">qama'pu'
DIHoHbe' net Sov = It is common knowledge that we don't kill
prisoners</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">qama'pu'
DIHoHbe' 'e' Sovlu' = It is known / someone knows that we
don't kill prisoners</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Similarly with
chaw' : </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">qama'pu' DIHoH
net chaw'be' = we are not allowed to kill prisoners</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">qama'pu' DIHoH
'e' chaw'lu'be' = someone does not allow us to kill prisoners</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Am I getting it
right ?</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span><p>My first attempt to answer this never arrived.</p>
<p>The "common knowledge" idea was invented by Klingonists' usage;
it is not canonical. Back in the early <b>qep'a'mey,</b> it was a
running gag to say <b>net Sov, net Sov!</b> in part because
Captain Krankor's imperial anthem uses that in a line. There is no
semantic difference between <b>net </b>X and <b>'e'</b> X<b>lu',</b>
except that the latter is supposed to be ungrammatical.<br>
</p>
<p>The rules say that, except for the recent exception with <b>'aq,</b>
one uses <b>net</b> when the subject of the second sentence is
indefinite, not <b>'e' </b>X<b>-lu'.</b> Okrand breaks this rule
occasionally, and when and why one can break the rule is unknown.</p>
<p>I believe he breaks the rule for the same reason I do sometimes:
it's easy to forget to use <b>net.</b> I think he does it in
error. Of course, if he ever decided to explain what's going on,
he'll invent some reason why all the examples we have of apparent
rules-violations are actually special cases, and here's what's
REALLY going on, and that'll be that.<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
</font></span></p><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<pre class="m_-3937266412578357402moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="m_-3937266412578357402moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name" target="_blank">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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