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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/27/2017 9:25 AM, Felix Malmenbeck
wrote:<br>
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<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:1506518703025.46394@kth.se">
<blockquote type="cite" style="color: #000000;">
<blockquote type="cite" style="color: #000000;">
<pre wrap="">It's worth noting that so do «wo' DevtaHjaj ghawran» and «wo' ghawran
DevtaHjaj», which are used in KGT to illustrate toast grammar.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">As you say, these are exceptions used in toasts, so that doesn't count.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">I don't believe the first example is meant to be an exception; according to KGT:
"If uttered as a wish, hope, or aspiration - but not as a toast - the normal word order applies: {wo' DevtaHjaj ghawran} ("May Gowron continue to lead the empire")."
It might still be an error, though.</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>What you do is count up exceptional circumstances. If a given
piece of canon (1) is a toast, which uses special grammar, and (2)
violates a clear rule, that's two reasons to be uncertain about
the correctness of that canon. The more reasons to doubt the
grammar of an utterance, the less certain you can be of the
explanation of that sentence.<br>
</p>
<p>But we're not talking about Okrandian canon here; we're talking
about stuff Qov wrote. Whether it's filmed or not, it has no more
authority than Worf belching out <i>ka'blah'blah'cha,</i> until
Okrand says Maltz has an opinion on it. Naturally, Okrand would
look at anything Qov wrote and say, "Oh, sure, that's because..."
and give us an explanation. But until he does that, it's not
canonical Klingon.<br>
</p>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:1506518703025.46394@kth.se">
<pre wrap="">Personally, I like to use phrases such as {X-ta'jaj X-taHbogh Hoch.} to wish people success. I'm fine with those being {mu'mey ru'}, though.
</pre>
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<p>But if you always do that, they're not really <b>mu'mey ru'.</b>
You're taking the exceptions to the language and applying them
generally, while telling yourself that you're not really doing
that.<br>
</p>
<p>It would be kind of like constantly telling people, <i>May you
are happy</i> or <i>May you are successful.</i> People would
get you the first time they heard it, and figured you just flubbed
the sentence in the moment, but if you kept saying that, they'd
start to look at you funny. Someone would ask, "Why do you say <i>are
</i>instead of <i>be</i>?" Now, violating the Klingon rule gives
you a more versatile sentence than violating my English examples,
and that's why you'd do it, but the effect on the listener would
be similar.<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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