<div dir="auto"><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">nIqolay Q:</span></div><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">> But after a while you have to realize that you're probably not > opening up productive new avenues of linguistic innovation, > you're just trying to convince yourself that nonsense isn't </span><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">> nonsense. </span></div><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px"><br></span></div><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">One thing which truly amazes me on this list, is how some people are always ready to judge others with regards to the questions they choose to ask.</span></div><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px"><br></span></div><div dir="auto"><font face="sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13.696px">Has anyone here appointed himself as the klingon-police, who will examine the quality of other people's questions and pass judgement as far as their motives for asking are concerned ?</span></font></div><div dir="auto"><font face="sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13.696px"><br></span></font></div><div dir="auto"><font face="sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13.696px">Either you like it or not, different things will concern different people, and each person will require assistance with regards to the obstacles he has encountered.</span></font></div><div dir="auto"><font face="sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13.696px"><br></span></font></div><div dir="auto"><font face="sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13.696px">When I ask something, I am not asking in order to just post a question. I ask because I have come across an obstacle.</span></font></div><div dir="auto"><font face="sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13.696px"><br></span></font></div><div dir="auto"><font face="sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13.696px">Or do I need to explain myself each time I ask something ? </span></font></div><div dir="auto"><font face="sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13.696px"><br></span></font></div><div dir="auto"><font face="sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13.696px">So relax. Noone is defiling your immaculate klingon grammar.</span></font></div><div dir="auto"><font face="sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13.696px"><br></span></font></div><div dir="auto"><font face="sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13.696px">qunnoq</span></font></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sep 12, 2017 8:01 PM, "nIqolay Q" <<a href="mailto:niqolay0@gmail.com">niqolay0@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 12:26 PM, mayqel qunenoS <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com" target="_blank">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">I agree 100% with the analysis provided by lieven.<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">So, if I understand correctly:</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Yes, we can have the construction {b'e' 'oH a'e'}.</div><div dir="auto">Yes, we can have the construction {yadda yadda yadda b'e' 'oHbogh 'a'e'}.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">If I understand wrong, then do correct me.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>How did you get that understanding from the examples people have posted? No one else here has used a sentence with two {-'e'} suffixes; most of the discussion has been about word order and finding clearer ways to rephrase your sentences. The {-'e'} suffix is a topic marker. It has the same meaning
in the {X 'oH Y'e'} construction as it does in any other sentence. It describes the topic of the
sentence, what the focus of the sentence is on, and a sentence (or at least a well-written one) can't have two focuses.* <br></div><div><br></div><div>In your examples, {nepwI''e' chaH verengan'e'} and<span style="font-family:sans-serif"> {nutojta' nepwI''e' chaHbogh verengan'e'}, which is more important to emphasize as the topic of the sentence: that the people you're talking about are liars, or that they're Ferengi? Pick one, and build your sentence accordingly.</span></div><div><div><span style="font-family:sans-serif"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:sans-serif">I enjoy asking questions about the weird possibilities of Klingon grammar as much as the next person, assuming that the next person really enjoys it. (I've got some questions on the prefix trick...) But after a while you have to realize that you're probably not opening up productive new avenues of linguistic innovation, you're just trying to convince yourself that nonsense isn't nonsense. At best, you're just coming up with new kinds of {chIch pabHa'ghach} "intentional ungrammaticality", like using prefixless {tu'lu'} with plural objects, or using an adverbial with a nominalized verb. We don't really have a context for using intentional ungrammaticality very often on the mailing list.<br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:sans-serif"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:sans-serif"></span>* I do wonder about sentences of the form {X verbbogh Y'e' ghaH Z'e'}, where the {-'e'} is used as a pronoun-copula subject marker AND as a relative-clause head-noun marker. My suspicion is that it's probably okay, because the first {-'e'} marks the topic of the relative clause while the second marks the topic of the main clause, but there's no examples I'm aware of.<br></div></div></div></div></div>
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