<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"></head><body><div>Thank you all for your replies and thoughts on this !<br>
<br><i>
HIq qIj reghuluS 'Iw HIq ghap jab <br>
<br>
They serve Black Ale or Regulan bloodwine. (CK)<br>
<br>
{A B ghap jab} “they serve them” not {lujab} “they serve it”</i><br>
<br>
<br>
This is a great example, and I think this gives us the solution, thank you for digging it up! <br>
<br>
I was convinced that if A and B were both singular, "A B ghap" would be considered singular when choosing the verb prefix, and that's why I thought joq might be singular in those cases, and I couldnt choose between singular or plural. But this proves the contrary !<br>
<br>
So, to sum up, whether A and B are singular or plural, and whether we use je or ghap, A + B + je / ghap is always plural.<br>
<br>
Logically, A + B + joq is thus also always plural ! <br>
<br>
So the correct sentence in my example is: <br>
vIraS Hol tlhIngan Hol joq DIghojnIS<br>
<br>
tuQaHmo' Satlho' :)<br>
<br></div><div>Aurélie </div><div><br></div><div id="composer_signature"><div style="font-size:85%;color:#575757" dir="auto">Envoyé depuis mon smartphone Samsung Galaxy.</div></div><div><br></div><div style="font-size:100%;color:#000000"><!-- originalMessage --><div>-------- Message d'origine --------</div><div>De : Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu> </div><div>Date : 31/08/2017 20:08 (GMT+01:00) </div><div>À : tlhingan-hol@kli.org </div><div>Objet : Re: [tlhIngan Hol] With "joq" - how do we choose the right verb prefix ? </div><div><br></div></div>
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I searched my notes for examples of the conjunctions {joq} and {ghap} in a complete sentences…<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">joq or, and/or (noun conj):<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> ta'meyDaj boqawDI' SuHemjaj
<br>
mu'meyDaj bojatlhDI' Suvaljaj<br>
not ta'meyDaj mu'meyDaj joq bolIjjaj<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellspacing="3" cellpadding="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width="23" valign="top" style="width:15.0pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td valign="top" style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">May you remember his deeds with pride,
<br>
May you recite his words with wisdom,<br>
May they forever be unforgettable. (PB)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Unfortunately the prefix {bo-} means “you (pl.) [do something to] him/her/it/them” so this is inconclusive.
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">{joq} was once apparently omitted/implied in SkyBox S21:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> qagh, ro'qegh'Iwchab, targh tIq Sop 'e' lungIl Humanpu' puS
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> Few humans dare to eat gagh, rokeg blood pie, or heart of targ. (S21)<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">ghap or, either/or (noun conj):<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> HIq qIj reghuluS 'Iw HIq ghap jab
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> They serve Black Ale or Regulan bloodwine. (CK)<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">{A B ghap jab} “they serve them” not {lujab} “they serve it”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">--<br>
Voragh<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> nIqolay Q<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 31, 2017 12:54 PM<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I don't think the plurality of phrases with {joq} or {ghap} has ever been discussed. I don't know if there's any examples. My guess is that since {joq} also includes the idea of "and", it should be considered plural. But that's just a guess,
and I have no idea what to do with {ghap}, or what to do with the broader question of unknown plurality. We may have to kick this one over to Maltz.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 12:56 PM, Aurélie Demonchaux <<a href="mailto:demonchaux.aurelie@gmail.com" target="_blank">demonchaux.aurelie@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">While discussing on the "Learn Klingon" group on Facebook, we wondered how to choose the correct verb prefix when "joq" (and / or) is used in the object and / or subject of the sentence. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">If we have the structure: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">noun1 noun2 joq + verb<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Do we consider that the object of the verb is singular or plural ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Using an example sentence: We need to learn French and / or Klingon.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">1/ vIraS Hol tlhIngan Hol joq
<b>wI</b>ghojnIS.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">2/ vIraS Hol tlhIngan Hol joq
<b>DI</b>ghojnIS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">if it were just a "je" we'd use "DI-" without hesitating, or if it were a "ghap" we'd use "wI-", but with joq... ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Has it already been discussed at some point what to do when you can't determine whether a verb's object / subject is singular or plural ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body></html>