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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/30/2017 11:24 AM, Lieven wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:8d363c8a-668a-87fa-f06d-75e894a31df8@gmx.de">Which nouns
make sense in a {[verb]meH [noun]} phrase?
<br>
<br>
In a discussion in Facebook, someone asked to translate "Tell me
why you did that" and I suggested {DamaghmeH meqlIj yIDel}
"describe your reason for betraying him".
<br>
<br>
Somebody corrected me that the noun in such a phrase should be
some kind of tool, as in {pe'meH taj} and {ja'chuqmeH rojHom}.
<br>
<br>
Is there any evidence for or against any of this?
<br>
<br>
I feel that {maghmeH meq} sounds reasonable (no pun intended) but
others don't.
</blockquote>
<p>Most of our examples seem to follow the pattern that purpose
clauses attached to nouns are theoretically infinitive—they don't
have subjects or prefixes—while purpose clauses attached to verbs
are finite.</p>
<p>So, <b>ja'chuqmeH rojHom</b><i> truce to confer,</i> but <b>maja'chuqmeH
maghom</b><i> we meet to confer.</i></p>
<p>I believe there are counterexamples, so take that with a grain of
salt, but I think that's the basic idea.</p>
<p>As for <b>maghmeH meq,</b> I don't like it because your motive
doesn't have the purpose of betraying; your motive leads to
betraying. In <b>ja'chuqmeH rojHom</b> the purpose of the truce
is conferring. In <b>pe'meH taj,</b> the purpose of the knife is
cutting. <b>-meH</b> on a noun describes the mission of that
noun. The mission of your motive is not to betray; the <i>cause</i>
of your betrayal is your motive.</p>
<p>I wouldn't translate <i>tell me why you did that!</i> so
literally. I'd just say <b>qatlh Data'pu'? </b><i>why did you do
it?</i> If the original action done were specified <i>(tell me
why you betrayed him!),</i> I'd use a better verb: <b>qatlh Damaghpu'?</b><i>
why did you betray him?</i> If I absolutely had to include the <i>tell
me!</i> part, I'd just add a <b>HIja'!</b> at the end of it or,
if I don't want it to be confused with <i>yes,</i> I'd say <b>jIHvaD
yIja'!</b> And if it truly, unfairly had to be a single sentence
about telling, I'd say <b>jIHvaD maghpu'ghach meq yIja'</b><i>
tell me your betrayal motive!</i> And if you insisted that,
nononono, not just betrayal but betraying <i>him,</i> I'd say go
away, I'm done.<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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