<div dir="auto">SuStel:<div dir="auto"><b style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">> jIHDaq ve'<br></b><i style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">> he travels on me</i></div><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">> He's riding on my back, or something like that. The </span></div><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">> destination is unstated. You can tell that </span><b style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">jIHDaq</b><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px"> is not the </span></div><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">> object of </span><b style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">ve'</b><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">because the verb prefix agrees </span></div><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">> with </span><i style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">he/she/it/they/none.</i></div><div dir="auto"><i style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px"><br></i></div><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:sans-serif">I fail to see how the {jIHDaq ve'} produces the "he travels on me". </span><i style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px"><br></i></div><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:sans-serif"><br></span></div><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:sans-serif">According to the canon (or so I think) example of {bIQtIqDaq jIjaH} for "I go in the river/I am moving along the river" (HQ 7.4, Dec 1998), whenever we have the {-Daq} with a verb of movement, which verb of movement has a verb prefix indicating no object, then the {-Daq} indicates the location where the going takes place.</span></div><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:sans-serif"><br></span></div><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:sans-serif">So, as I understand the example of {jIHDaq ve'} the meaning isn't "he travels (with a purpose) on me"; it is rather "he is traveling with a purpose in the vicinity of me".</span></div><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:sans-serif"><br></span></div><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:sans-serif">qunnoq</span></div><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:sans-serif"><br></span></div><div dir="auto"><i style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px"><br></i></div><div dir="auto"><i style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px"><br></i></div><div dir="auto"><i style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px"><br></i></div><div dir="auto"><i style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px"><br></i></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 5 Jul 2017 8:52 pm, "SuStel" <<a href="mailto:sustel@trimboli.name" target="_blank">sustel@trimboli.name</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<div class="m_-2718200775927719260moz-cite-prefix">On 7/5/2017 1:26 PM, David Holt wrote:<br>
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<p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">ghItlh mayqel qunenoS:</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12pt">>> DaH qep'a' ve'meH
bonablaH.</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:17.12px"><br>
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<span style="font-size:17.12px">>If the {ve'} as a verb
of movement follows the same rules with {jaH}, and the
sentence refers to a single person, then..</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:17.12px">>shouldn't this be
{DaH qep'a'Daq Dave'meH bInablaH} or {DaH qep'a'
Da'vemeH bInablaH} ?</span><br>
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<span style="font-size:17.12px"><br>
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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font face="calibri, arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:17.12px">Since the {bo-} prefix is
used on the main verb, the sentence is not
referring to a single person. To be safe, this should
be, {DaH qep'a'Daq bove'meH bonablaH}. The {-Daq} is
actually optional and should not be a point of
contention or argument.</span></font></p>
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<p>It's not that it's optional; it's that it's redundant. Let me use
an example that makes it clear what is an object and what isn't
(assuming <b>ve'</b> works like <b>jaH</b>).</p>
<p><b>jIH muve'<br>
</b><i>he travels to me<br>
</i>I am his destination. <b>jIH</b> is the object of <b>ve'.</b><br>
</p>
<p><b>jIHDaq ve'<br>
</b><i>he travels on me<br>
</i>He's riding on my back, or something like that. The
destination is unstated. You can tell that <b>jIHDaq</b> is not
the object of <b>ve'</b> because the verb prefix agrees with <i>he/she/it/they/none.</i></p>
<p><b>jIHDaq muve'<br>
</b><i>he travels to at-me; he travels to me-as-location<br>
</i>This is grammatical; you're just marking <i>me</i> explicitly
as a location. The verb prefix agrees with <b>jIHDaq</b> and
shows that that's its object. But since <b>ve'</b> includes the
notion that its object is a location, this is redundant. I have
tried to reproduce its effect in the English translation above.
The Klingon is more formally grammatically correct than the
English.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, the line from the movie is simply <b>jIve'.</b>
We don't actually know whether it is a "verb of motion" or not.
Since it is compared to <b>leng,</b> which is a verb of motion,
my money is on <b>ve'</b> being one too.<br>
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<pre class="m_-2718200775927719260moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="m_-2718200775927719260moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name" target="_blank">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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