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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/8/2017 12:02 AM, nIqolay Q wrote:<br>
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<div>I have attempted a translation of another classical poem.
This time, it's "The Second Coming", by William Butler Yeats.
The version of the poem I used can be found here: <a
href="https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/43290"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/43290</a><br>
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cha'DIch ghoS [1]<br>
[1] I'm basing this on the controversial canon from the SkyBox
card where {wa'DIch} was used as an adverbial for "the first
time". I wanted to keep the idea of "second" in the
translation, because of the religious connotations of the
"second coming", so I didn't use {ghoSqa'}. I didn't use
something like {ghoSpu'ghach cha'DIch} since I wanted to avoid
{-ghach} as much as possible (though I still ended up using it
elsewhere). {cha'logh ghoS} suggests both comings, not just
the second one. So I'm rolling the dice on the adverbial
{-DIch}.<br>
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<p>I don't remember the SkyBox card that uses an ordinal as an
adverbial. Which one is it?</p>
<p><i>paq'batlh</i> uses ordinals as adverbials, but the meaning is
a step in a sequence:</p>
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<p><b>wa'DIch Hegh moratlh<br>
</b><i>First, Morath fell<br>
</i>...<br>
<b>ghIq Hegh qanjIt<br>
</b><i>Then, Kanjit fell</i></p>
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<p><b>cha'DIch ghoS</b> would therefore mean something like, <i>secondly,
he goes,</i> as if this is the second thing he did.</p>
<p>The best translation may be <b>pawpu'ghach cha'DIch</b><i>
second arrival.</i> There's no reason to avoid a perfectly good
suffix like <b>-ghach</b> if you're using it correctly. The
advice to avoid it applies only when there is a tendency to
overuse it. If you absolutely have to use <b>cha'DIch</b> to mean
a second something, then you also have to apply it to a noun
normally. <b>-ghach</b> gives you that.</p>
<p>I chose <b>paw</b> instead of <b>ghoS</b> because <i>coming
(n) </i>means <i>approach, arrival, advent,</i> which is
exactly what <b>paw</b> means. <b>ghoS</b> means a bunch of
other things you don't want.<br>
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<div> Sachbogh ghoDaq tlhe'taHqu' 'oH.<br>
wamwI' QoylaHbe' wammeH bo'Degh.<br>
Sab Dochmey. ngaDlaHbe'taH botlh.<br>
qo'Daq chutmey Hutlhbogh nugh'e' 'uchHa'lu'.<br>
bIQ'a''e' HurghmoHbogh 'Iw 'uchHa'lu' 'ej Dat<br>
chuntaHghach tay SoD bIQ'a'.<br>
pagh Har nIvqu'wI'pu' 'ach<br>
pe'vIl nongqu' QIvqu'wI'pu'.<br>
<br>
tugh vay' 'anglu'bej.<br>
tugh cha'DIch ghoSbej.<br>
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<p>You can't escape that this means <i>Soon, as a second step, he
surely goes.</i> If <b>cha'DIch</b> absolutely must be there,
you need <b>tugh qaS pawpu'ghach cha'DIch.</b></p>
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<div> cha'DIch ghoS! mu'meyvetlh vIjatlhpu'DI'<br>
SIbI' mInDu'wIj Suj<br>
mIllogh'a''e' Delbogh qo' qa'.<br>
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<p>If Yeats felt it necessary to use a Latin term in an English
poem, there's no reason for you to use anything but Latin either.</p>
<p>I don't think you want <b>-'a'</b> for <i>vast;</i> that's more
like <b>tInqu'. </b>Replace <b>mIllogh'a''e' Delbogh qo' qa'</b>
with <b>mIllogh tInqu' Delbogh </b><i>Spiritus Mundi.</i> Stick
an <b>-'e'</b> on <b>tInqu'</b> if you're not concerned with any
kind of meter and you think you need to disambiguate the head
noun.<br>
</p>
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<div> Deb voghDaq QIt 'uSDu'Daj vIHmoH<br>
vIghro''a' porgh loD nach je ghajbogh tu'qom.<br>
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<p>I recommend putting a comma between <b>porgh</b> and <b>loD</b>
so the reader knows where one noun phrase ends and the other
begins. It took me a while to figure it out.</p>
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<div> pagh lu'agh mInDu'Daj 'ej vupbe' bIH. jul lurur.<br>
Dechbogh retlhDajDaq jIr Deb bo'Deghmey QeH QIbmey.<br>
pumqa' QIb 'ach<br>
cha'SaD DIS poH QongwI' let<br>
najHa'moHpu' Qombogh ghu QongDaq DaH 'e' vISov. [2]<br>
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[2] {Qom} isn't the right word here, but earthquakes at least
fit the apocalyptic tone, and there's not much else to use.
Maybe one of the airplane movement verbs?<br>
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<p>I think the word <b>Dav</b> <i>sway</i> can be used outside of
aircraft. At any rate, its explanation by Maltz doesn't say it's
specific to aircraft. It's not quite <i>rock,</i> but it's as
close as we've got.</p>
<p>I don't understand what <i>stony sleep</i> means in the
original, but I'm not sure that <b>QongwI' let</b><i> hard
sleeper</i> fits it. (When <b>let</b> says it means <i>hard
(like a stone),</i> that doesn't mean <b>let</b> means <i>stone-like.</i>
It's disambiguating from <i>hard (difficult).</i>)<br>
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<div> 'ej tagha' repDaj lop Ha'DIbaH naQbe'<br>
'ej boghmeH betle'HemDaq yItlI'. [3]<br>
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<div>[3] I would appreciate any suggestions on how to better
translate "slouch". {yIt} just doesn't seem to cut it.<br>
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<p>A literal translation might be <b>yItlI' 'ej yepHa'lI'</b><b>.</b>
Or maybe add <b>SIbI'Ha' </b><i>eventually</i> to the start of
the sentence to suggest that the walking isn't especially
motivated or brisk. Maybe also add <b>QIt</b> <i>slowly</i>
along with it. Something like <b>'ej SIbI'Ha' boghmeH
betle'HemDaq QIt yItlI'.</b><br>
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<p><b>majQa'!</b> This is the sort of translation I like: you've
done a close reading of the original and remained sensitive to
what the poet was trying to convey, rather than just convert the
words grammatically. You tried to replicate the feel of the poem
in flow and concept without being ungrammatical with a call-out to
poetic license as an excuse for things you couldn't make work.<br>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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