<div dir="ltr"><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 8:30 AM, SuStel <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sustel@trimboli.name" target="_blank">sustel@trimboli.name</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<div class="m_-4515236783446029489moz-cite-prefix">On 2/20/2017 12:53 AM, Ed Bailey wrote:<br>
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<div>QeS, bIQIj 'e' DaQoy DaneHmo', choquvmoH.</div>
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</span><p><i>Because you want to hear that you explain...</i> I think you
meant <b>jIQIj.</b><br>
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<br></span></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>bIlugh. QaghwIj QIp Datu'pu'. pIj jIDachchoH. <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><span class="">
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<div> vaj vuDwIj vIQIjmeH vIvum 'e' Daqotlhbej.<br>
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<div>wa'DIch jIQIjbe', pIj Sojvam ngachlu'pu'mo' 'ej Sojvam
wuqlaHmo' marq 'oqranD neH. tagha' wuq marq 'oqranD 'e'
vIjInqu', jIjatlhpu'. wuqchugh, ramchoH Hoch latlh vuD.<br>
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jIQIjchoHpa', paghDIch mIw vIja'. taghwI' jIHtaHvIS,
jIngongmeH jIngong vIneH. Dayaj'a'? wotDaq DIpDaq je mojaqmey
vImutlh ngugh vIneH.<br>
naQjej rurmo' wot, ghantoH <chuH> vIlo'. vay''e'
chuHlu'bogh 'oSbej ?chuHlu'wI' 'e' SIbI' vItlhoj.</div>
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</span><p><b>vay'e' chuHlu'bogh 'oSbej *chuHlu'wI' SIbI' 'e' vItlhoj</b></p>
<p>or</p>
<p><b>SIbI' vay''e' chuHlu'bogh 'oHSbej *chuHlu'wI' 'e' vItlhoj</b></p></div></blockquote><div><'e'> tlha'laH chuvmey 'e' vIQub. 'a jIQochbe', <'e'> nung chuvmey vImaS je.<br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><p><br>
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<div> lughqu'law', 'a wa'DIch DujwIj vIvoqmo' neH. meq
vIngu'laHbe'pu'.</div>
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</span><p>This is probably not a good place for <b>-pu'.</b> You're
describing your state of mind at a particular time, not a
completed event or state of mind. That state might be over now,
but in the narrative, it isn't. It's just what your state was.<br>
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<br></span></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Guilty as charged. I was thinking of tense instead of aspect. <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><span class="">
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<div> vay' vIHaDnISbogh vItu'pu'. <yIvoq 'ach yI'ol>,
qar'a'?<br>
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<div>cha' mojaqvam luDuDlu' 'e' tuch'a' TKD, ngugh 'e' vISIv.
TKD 3.2.2 vIlaDpu'. wotDaq <-wI'> chellu'DI', DIp moj
wot 'ej mu'tlheghDaq wotvam tlha'bogh DIp'e' 'oS DIpvam chu'
'e' QIj TKD. vaj chuHbogh vay' 'oS chuHwI'.<br>
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<div>Hoch QIjbe' TKD. DIp nap chenmoH wot <-wI'> je 'e'
nughojmoH TKD, 'ach <-wI'> latlh mojaq je ghajchugh wot,
qaSbogh wanI' 'angbe' TKD. 'a qay' <-lu'> neH 'e'
wIloylaH. ghu' le' 'oHba' wot'e' tlhejbogh <-lu'>.<br>
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nItebHa' qaSlaHbe' wot, <-lu'>, <-wI'> je lutob
mu'mey'e' lo'pu'bogh marq 'oqranD net Qub. TKD 3.2.2
qontaHvIS, ghu'vam qelbe'taH 'e' vIQub.<br>
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cha' meqmo' ghu' le' 'oH wot'e' tlhejbogh <-lu'>.<br>
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wot tlhejtaHvIS <-lu'>, mu'tlheghDaq wotvam tlha'laH
pagh DIp. meq wa'DIch'e' 'oH ngoDvam'e'.<br>
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wot tlha'bogh DIpvaD per vIHutlh. naQjej rurmo' wot, DIpvamvaD
<chuHwI' DIp> vIper. wot nungbogh DIpvaD <DoS DIp>
vIper.<br>
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wot tlhejtaHvIS <-lu'>, moHaq pIm poQ wotvam je. meq
cha'DIch 'oH ngoDvam'e'.<br>
DoS DIpvaD chuHwI' DIp DamoH rom chut.</div>
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</span><p>In English passive voice, this is true. <b>-lu'</b> is not
English passive voice. In Klingon, when <b>-lu'</b> is added, the
object remains the object.<br></p></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>This is the language used to decribe what goes on in Klingon. My point is the construction i <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><p>
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<div> So'bogh DoS DIp chu' jal rom chut je,</div>
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</span><p><i>The rule of accord envisions a new, hidden target noun</i>?<br></p></div></blockquote><div>My language here is awkward. An example is called for. When {mulegh ghaH} is changed to {vIleghlu'}. The rule of accord requires the prefix {vI-}, so although semantically there is a null agent and first-person singular patient, grammatically the rule of accord treats this situation as if there were a first-person singular subject and third-person singular object, although that object is merely a grammatical fiction. This is clearly a special situation, and I have to wonder whether OVS accurately reflects how Klingon linguists would interpret it.<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><p>
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<div> vaj DoS DIpvam chu'vaD <ghaH> <'oH> ghap<b> </b>qellaH
vay' 'e' ghet moHaq le' DIlo'bogh.</div>
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</span><p><b>lughet</b></p></div></blockquote><div>bIlughbej.<br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><p><br>
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<div> 'a potlhbe', mu'tlheghDaq DI'rujDaq ghap DoS DIpqoqvam
chu' tu'be'lu'mo'. wotvaD DoS DIp 'oHtaH nungbogh DIp'e'.
moHaqvaD chuHwI' DIp mojlaw' nungbogh DIp. ghu'vam vIqelmeH
DIvI' Hol qechmey /subject/ /object/ je, jImISqu'choH. 'ach
vuDlIj QIjmeH /subject/ /object/ je wuv SuStel. rarchu'be'
tlhIngan Hol, qechmeyvam je 'e' vIQub.<br>
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<div>ghu'vam le'mo', SuStel vuD vIHon. latlh meq vIghaj.
'oSlaHbe' wot'e' tlhejbogh <-lu'> <-wI'> je, 'eb
lonlu'pu' 'ej pagh chavlu'.</div>
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</span><p>Hoch 'eb jon Hol 'e' SaHbe' Hol.<br></p></div></blockquote><div>'a chaq SaH tlhInganpu'. 'eb tu'DI', lulo' 'e' bot nuq? lubotlaHbe'ba' tera'ngan Holtej. 'a 'eb lulo' luneHbe' tlhIngan, SIghlaHbe' je tera'ngan Holtej.<br><br></div><div>DaH jIyevnIS 'a jItaHqa'. SuStel, choQaHqangmo' choquvmoH. qaQeHmoHmo' jIQoS. jItlhIj 'e' DalajlaH'a'?<br><br></div><div>~mIp'av<br></div></div></div></div>