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      <p>The reason people suggest avoiding <b>-ghach</b> is to avoid
        the trap that you just fell into: adding a suffix (usually <b>-taH</b>)
        just because you're supposed to, but not really meaning that
        suffix.</p>
      <p><b>vuttaHghach</b> doesn't mean <i>cooking,</i> it means <i>an
          ongoing act of cooking,</i> or <i>continuous cooking.</i>
        That's not what you mean when you want to say <i>I like to
          cook.</i> What you'd want to say is <b>*vutghach vIparHa',</b>
        but you can't say that.</p>
      <p>Make no mistake: adding <b>-ghach</b> to a bare verb is <i>wrong,</i>
        even though Okrand simply called it "marked." Okrand tells us in
        <a
href="http://klingonska.org/canon/search/?file=1994-09-holqed-03-3-a.txt&q=marked"><i>HolQeD
            3:3</i></a> that saying <b>*belghach</b> is like saying <i>*pleasureness.</i>
        We all understand it, but you don't say it. Klingons might not
        take it as badly as we would take <i>*pleasureness,</i> but
        it's still not right.<br>
      </p>
      <p>The idea behind <b>-ghach</b> is this. Imagine you've got a
        verb like <b>bel,</b> and you've got a magic nominalizer button
        that, when pressed, turns the verb <b>bel</b> into the noun <b>bel.</b>
        Imagine this button works on any verb, but for the moment forget
        about verbs that don't have known noun counterparts (like <b>tlhutlh</b>).
        Stick a suffix on the verb, and press the button. When we put,
        say, <b>-taH</b> onto <b>bel</b> to get <b>beltaH</b> <i>be
          continuously pleased</i> and then press the button, nothing
        happens. The presence of the suffix blocks our nominalization
        button. So Okrand comes along and gives us a magic suffix, <b>-ghach,</b>
        which when stuck on the end counteracts the presence of the
        blocking suffix and lets the nominalizer button work again. We
        add the suffix and push the button and ZAP! we get <b>beltaHghach</b><i>
          ongoing pleasure.</i></p>
      <p>The point of <b>-ghach</b> is to hide the verb's other
        suffixes from the nominalization process, so you can turn the
        suffixed verb into a noun again.</p>
      <p>Now, the funny thing is, this process works to counteract
        suffixes and nominalize verbs that don't actually have noun
        counterparts! So while I can't use <b>tlhutlh</b> to mean <i>a
          drink,</i> I CAN say <b>tlhutlhtaHghach</b><i> ongoing
          drinking.</i></p>
      <p>So people find themselves wanting to use <b>-ghach</b> on
        verbs that don't have noun counterparts, but they're not
        actually interested in counteracting suffixes; they just want a
        noun form of the verb. But, the rules say, you can't really use
        <b>-ghach</b> without a suffix. So they go and pick the one that
        least changes the meaning of the verb (usually <b>-taH</b>)
        just so they can get access to <b>-ghach,</b> even though
        they're not using it for its real purpose.</p>
      <p><i><b>TL;DR: WHENEVER YOU FEEL AN URGE TO USE -ghach ON A BARE
            VERB, DON'T USE -ghach AT ALL. </b></i>Find some other way
        to say what you want to say, like sentences-as-objects.</p>
      <p>And no, don't put prefixes on verbs with <b>-ghach.</b> We
        don't think you're supposed to do that.<br>
      </p>
      <br>
      On 2/13/2017 4:05 PM, Aurélie Demonchaux wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAEr0j+RMMufZ5PvSzmnSJdtKUKsGg7+-PVgq-zGjuftv11CYtQ@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Thanks for the
          suggestion!</div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I was a bit
          hesitant about -ghach because I remember a discussion about it
          being a bit tricky to use for a beginner, or possibly "bad
          Klingon".</div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">But, I guess
          then if it's ok to use it it could be:</div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default"><font face="times new roman, serif">vuttaHghach
            vIparHa'</font></div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">(by the way, I
          don't need to use any prefix in a nominalized verb, right?)</div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Thanks again!</div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">~mughwI'</div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
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      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">2017-02-12 23:08 GMT+01:00
          MorphemeAddict <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:lytlesw@gmail.com" target="_blank">lytlesw@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div dir="ltr">
              <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:courier
                new,monospace">How about using a noun derived from a
                verb (by adding -ghach, e.g.) as the object? It involves
                deciding which other suffix(es) to use so that it
                doesn't sound odd. </div>
              <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:courier
                new,monospace"><br>
              </div>
              <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:courier
                new,monospace">lay'tel SIvten</div>
            </div>
            <div class="HOEnZb">
              <div class="h5">
                <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                  <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 7:25
                    PM, Lieven <span dir="ltr"><<a
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:levinius@gmx.de" target="_blank">levinius@gmx.de</a>></span>
                    wrote:<br>
                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
                      .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Okay,
                      since others have broken the KLBC-barrier already,
                      and our current BG may be at shore leave, I'll
                      answer this:<span><br>
                        <br>
                        Am 09.02.2017 um 13:31 schrieb Aurélie
                        Demonchaux:<br>
                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
                          0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                          solid;padding-left:1ex"> We have some examples
                          of <par> and <parHa'> being used
                          with nouns or<br>
                          pronouns but I can't find any canon source
                          where they apply to verbs.<br>
                          <br>
                          Do you use {'e'} or nothing in those cases?<br>
                        </blockquote>
                        <br>
                      </span> I will not go into alternatives like {tIv}
                      "enjoy", but simple answer<br>
                      the question grammatically:<br>
                      <br>
                      The verb {neH} is the only exception for omitting
                      {'e'}. This means that it is correct to say<br>
                      <br>
                      {jIvut 'e' vIparHa'} "I like that I cook."<br>
                      <br>
                      Yes, indeed you may think that this literally
                      means "I do like the fact that I am cooking at
                      this moment", but there is no "special"
                      construction to express the common feeling of "I
                      like surfing in general". It's the English that's
                      strange, not the Klingon.<span
                        class="m_-7000954861079759648HOEnZb"><font
                          color="#888888"><br>
                        </font></span><br>
                    </blockquote>
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    <br>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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