<p dir="ltr">SuStel:<br>
> My answer is that in none of these sentences<br>
> do we see question words as part of a noun-<br>
> noun construction. In the first two we see an<br>
> independent time expression<b> (DaSjaj)</b> and the<br>
> question word <b>ghorgh</b> each standing alone.<br>
> In the second two we see a locative<br>
> noun <b>(tera'Daq)</b> and the question<br>
> word <b>nuqDaq</b> each standing alone. There are<br>
> no noun-noun constructions here.</p>
<p dir="ltr">So, would you accept the {ghorgh} and {nuqDaq} examples which I wrote, as being correct ?</p>
<p dir="ltr">qunnoH jan puqloD<br>
ghoghwIj HablI'vo' vIngeHta'</p>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 16 Dec 2016 4:28 pm, "SuStel" <<a href="mailto:sustel@trimboli.name">sustel@trimboli.name</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div class="m_-452005272541219020moz-cite-prefix">On 12/16/2016 9:00 AM, mayqel qunenoS
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">but if I write something which doesn't violate a rule,
why dismiss it if okrand never used it ? who can argue that okrand
has used every possible combination in klingon, so that if what I
write doesn't fall into these combinations, then it is wrong ?
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>There's not violating a rule, and then there's making up a new
rule. You're trying to construct a sentence whose grammar doesn't
follow from what we've been given, but which does mimic English
grammar. This is a strong sign that you're trying to follow the
rules of English to construct Klingon sentences.</p>
<p>If you try to make a sentence using a rule you made up, even one
which doesn't seem to violate any of Okrand's rules, we're going
to demand to see some justification. This is why I tell you, when
you ask why can't we say <b>*pawpu' nuq Duj</b><i> what ship has
arrived?</i>, that Okrand hasn't created a rule that says <b>nuq</b>
acts like <i>which?,</i> and he's never constructed a sentence
that acted that way. Those are the two ways we learn the rules of
Klingon: Okrand says "this is a rule," or we deduce the rules from
Okrand's examples.</p>
<p><b>nuq</b> goes in the place the answer would occupy. But if it's
part of a noun-noun construction it the answer doesn't replace the
entire noun-noun. If the answer were <b>pawpu' 'entepray',</b>
what I've done is replace <b>*nuq Duj</b><b>,</b> not just <b>nuq,</b>
with the answer. And there's no rule that says we can do that or
example of Okrand doing that.</p>
<p>Furthermore, Okrand <i>has</i> given us question words next to
nouns, but they mean something very different. <b>nuq</b> and <b>'Iv</b>
work like pronouns, and you can say things like <b>nuq Duj</b><b>vetlh</b><i>
what is that ship?</i> and <b>yaSvetlh 'Iv</b><i> who is that
officer?</i><br>
</p>
<p>You originally asked,</p>
<blockquote>
<pre>we said that we can't have {'Iv} and {nuq} as part of noun-noun
constructions. but can we have the {ghorgh} and {nuqDaq} existing next
to nouns ?
for example can we say:
{ghorgh DaSjaj mamej}
when do we depart on monday ?
{DaSjaj ghorgh mamej}
on monday when do we depart
{nuqDaq tera'Daq mIl'oDmey tu'lu'}
where on earth someone finds bears ?
{tera'Daq nuqDaq mIl'oDmey tu'lu'}
on earth where someone finds bears ?
</pre>
</blockquote>
<p>My answer is that in none of these sentences do we see question
words as part of a noun-noun construction. In the first two we see
an independent time expression<b> (DaSjaj)</b> and the question
word <b>ghorgh</b> each standing alone. In the second two we see
a locative noun <b>(tera'Daq)</b> and the question word <b>nuqDaq</b>
each standing alone. There are no noun-noun constructions here.<br>
</p>
<pre>
</pre>
<pre class="m_-452005272541219020moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="m_-452005272541219020moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name" target="_blank">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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