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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Thanks. I searched my email archive for
that one, but couldn't find it.<br>
<br>
On 12/14/2016 12:13 PM, Steven Boozer wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoPlainText"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#44546A">SuStel
is using the method for translating “which/what is X?” that
Okrand introduced on the old
</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">msn.onstage.startrek.expert.okrand</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#44546A">
BBS. FYI here is the relevant part of his post
(unformatted):<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">************************************************************************<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">From:
MarcOkrand <…><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Newsgroups:
msn.onstage.startrek.expert.okrand<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Date:
December 12, 1996<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Subject:
What do you think?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> [. . .
.]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">(2) You
suggested translating "What is your favorite month?" as:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <b>jarlIj
qaq nuq</b>?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">This
one's a little easier to deal with. Your sentence literally
means<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">"What is
your preferable month?" The basic syntax is correct.
Question<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">words (in
this case, <b>nuq</b> "what?") function the same way
pronouns do in<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">questions
with "to be" in the English translations. Thus, the
question<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt">yIH
nuq</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt">? "What is a
tribble?" is exactly parallel the statement
<b>yIH 'oH</b><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">"It is a
tribble" (where <b>
yIH </b>is "tribble" and <b>'oH </b>is "it"). The
answer to the question <b>yIH nuq</b>? ("What is a
tribble?") would presumably be a<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">definition
or description of a tribble. This being the case, then, the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">answer to
the question <b>
jarlIj qaq nuq</b>? ("What is your preferable month?")
would presumably be a definition of "your favorite month."
But this is not what you want to find out by asking your
question. What you really mean to ask is something like "Of
all the months, which one do you prefer?" <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">The first
word in your sentence,
<b>jarlIj</b>, means "your month" (<b>jar </b>"month," <b>-lIj
</b>"your"). But given that what you're really asking is
"Which month do you prefer?" it's not really "your month" at
all. The "you" should go with the verb, not with "month."
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Which
brings us to the verb. You use
<b>qaq</b>, "be preferable," adjectivally<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">(<b>jarlIj
qaq </b>is "your preferable month"). I think what you
mean is better<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">expressed
by using the verb
<b>maS </b>"prefer" with "you" as the subject: <b>jar<o:p></o:p></b></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt">DamaS</span></b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt"> "you prefer the month." If you
want to highlight the notion of<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">"most
prefer," you can use the emphatic suffix -<b>qu'</b>:
<b>jar DamaSqu'</b> "you<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">very much
prefer the month." (In this case, since "prefer" involves<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">making a
choice, the one chosen is automatically the one that is
"most"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">preferred.)
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">So what
about the "what" (or "which") of your original question<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">("What/which
is your favorite month?")? When asking someone a question
of<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">this
type, you are really asking him or her to make a choice. So
just be<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">a Klingon
and order them to do so: "Identify the month that you very
much prefer!":
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt">
jar DamaSqu'bogh yIngu'
<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt">DamaSqu'bogh
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt">"that you very
much prefer" (<b>DamaSqu'
</b>"you very much prefer<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">it" plus
-<b>bogh </b>"which," the relative-clause marker) modifies
<b>jar </b>"month"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">and the
whole phrase <b>jar DamaSqu'bogh
</b>"the month that you very much<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">prefer"
is the object of the verb
<b>ngu'</b> ("identify"), which is preceded by the
imperative prefix <b>yI</b>- ("do something to it!").
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Given
that there's an awful lot about Klingon grammar that's not
yet known, you did a good job coming up with the
translations you came up with. I hope my explanations and
clarifications make sense.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">************************************************************************<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">On
Behalf Of
</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">SuStel<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 14, 2016 10:47 AM<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 12/14/2016 11:17 AM, mayqel qunenoS
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p>I'm just asking in order to make sure I understand this
correctly.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>lets say I want to ask "which ship arrived ?". both
{paw'ta' Duj nuq} and {paw'ta' nuq Duj} are wrong, right ?<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p><b>paw,</b> not <b>paw'</b> (unless the arrival was very
rough!).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><b>nuq</b> goes into the place of the answer. If the answer
isn't the same sentence with a substitution for
<b>nuq,</b> then the question is not formed correctly.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>If the answer to the question is, for instance, that the <i>Enterprise</i>
arrived, then the answer is
<b>pawta' 'entepray'.</b> But this isn't in the same form
that you asked it, because it doesn't include the word
<b>Duj.</b> So the entire method of asking the question is
doubtful.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>There <i>are</i> some answers that would fit, like, say, <b>pawta'
DIvI' Duj.</b> But not every answer will fit, so you may
not be able to ask questions this way.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>In any case, we've never seen Okrand use <b>nuq</b> or <b>'Iv</b>
in a noun-noun construction like this, so whether or not
this is allowed is unknown.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>The most common thing to do is turn it into a command to
identify: <b>paw'ta'bogh Duj yIngu'</b><i> identify the
ship that has arrived!</i> If you're not asking for a
name, you might get more specific, like
<b>pawta'bogh Duj Sar yIngu'</b> <i>identify the type of
ship that has arrived!</i><o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>SuStel<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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<p><br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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