<p dir="ltr">SuStel:<br>
> because the rules of noun-noun<br>
> constructions do not allow us to put a type 5<br>
> noun suffix on any but the final noun.</p>
<p dir="ltr">this is beautiful ! I would never have thought that the {SorDaq vIghro' law' law', chalDaq bo'Degh law' puS}, violates this rule.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Somehow, I had the impression that at the {... law' ... puS} construction, the rules which govern the noun-noun relationship do not apply.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Anyway, now I understand. thanks !</p>
<p dir="ltr">qunnoH<br>
ghoghwIj HablI'vo' vIngeHta'</p>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 23 Nov 2016 4:13 pm, "SuStel" <<a href="mailto:sustel@trimboli.name">sustel@trimboli.name</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div class="m_-4573816904120527435moz-cite-prefix">On 11/23/2016 6:25 AM, mayqel qunenoS
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>jIH:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite" style="color:#000000">
<pre>SorDaq vIghro' law' law', chalDaq bo'Degh law' puS
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>SuStel
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite" style="color:#000000">
<pre>No. You've left out the {vIleghbogh}.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>There is something here I don't understand.
If we say {vIghro' law' law', bo'Degh law' puS}, then this means "the
cats are more numerous than the birds". Why can't we just place a noun
with a {-Daq} in front of the {vIghro'} and {bo'Degh}, with the
sentence acquiring the meaning "at that place the cats are more, than
the birds that are at that (the other place)" ?</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>Because the comparative structure does not include nouns with <b>-Daq</b>.</p>
<p>The structure is "A Q <b>law'</b> B Q <b>puS</b>," where A and
B are noun phrases. Except for the specific changes given to us by
Okrand, this structure is invariable. It is not "X<b>Daq</b> A Q <b>law'</b>
Y<b>Daq</b> B Q <b>puS</b>."<br>
</p>
<p>Now, noun phrases can include nouns with <b>-Daq.</b> For
instance, <b>SorDaq vIghro' vIleghbogh</b><i> cat which I see in
a tree.</i> But <b>*SorDaq vIghro'</b> is not a noun phrase. It
does not mean <i>cat in a tree</i> because the rules of noun-noun
constructions do not allow us to put a type 5 noun suffix on any
but the final noun.</p>
<p>So if you want the individual parts of a comparative sentence to
refer to different places, you're going to have to do so with noun
phrases. These can be very sophisticated:</p>
<p><b>SorDaq bIHtaHbogh vIghro''e' law' law' chalDaq bIHtaHbogh
bo'Degh'e' law' puS<br>
</b><i>there are more cats in the tree than birds in the sky</i></p>
<p>Alternatively, depending on your emphasis, you can abandon the
comparative construct altogether:</p>
<p><b>SorDaq law' vIghro'; chalDaq puS bo'Degh<br>
</b><i>there are many cats in the tree; there are few birds in the
sky</i><b><br>
</b></p>
<p>There is<b> </b>one exception to the invariability of the
comparative construction that I can think of:</p>
<p><b>QamvIS Hegh QaQ law' torvIS yIn QaQ puS<br>
</b><i>Better to die on our feet than live on our knees.</i> (STVI
and TKW)</p>
<p>This sentence is a disaster on many levels, and Okrand even
points out in TKW that it is ungrammatical, though he only
discusses the <b>-vIS</b> lacking a <b>-taH.</b> But by all the
rules we know, <b>*QamtaHvIS Hegh</b> and <b>*tortaHvIS yIn </b>are
not real relative clauses. Can you insert <b>-vIS</b> clauses
into the comparative formula like that? We don't know. Nothing
backs this sentence up.<br>
</p>
<pre class="m_-4573816904120527435moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="m_-4573816904120527435moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name" target="_blank">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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