<div dir="ltr"><div><div>Another idea, unrelated to the syntactic workings of {nargh}: maybe they're in fact not 2 distinct homophonic verbs, but one verb with 2 quite different translations in English. Escaping and appearing might just be different viewpoints of the same action, just like "come" and "go" are both {ghoS} or {jaH} and context (often {-vo'} decides how to interpret it. Klingon isn't the only language which does that. One of the languages of Burma that I am working on (Jinghpaw, pronounced exactly like {jIngpo'} in Klingon by the way!) also only has one word "sa" to mean both 'come' and 'go'.<br><br></div>So perhaps {nargh} describes the concept of suddenly changing its state of presence. One can, sort of, appear to a place, or away from a place. Or a thing might suddenly escape from nowhere into sight, and then suddenly escape out of your sight again.<br><br></div>- André<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2016-11-21 21:02 GMT+01:00 SuStel <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sustel@trimboli.name" target="_blank">sustel@trimboli.name</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<div class="m_7144054762182831352moz-cite-prefix">On 11/21/2016 1:34 PM, mayqel qunenoS
wrote:<br>
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<pre>SuStel:
</pre>
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<pre><span class="m_7144054762182831352moz-txt-citetags">> </span>You can either say ghe''orvo' jInarghpu' I escaped
<span class="m_7144054762182831352moz-txt-citetags">> </span>from Grethor or ghe''or vInarghpu' I escaped Grethor.
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<pre>hmm.. now I started to wonder.. walk with me..
bIQ'a' HeHDaq jIjaH
the "going" takes place at the shore
bIQ'a' HeH vIjaH
I am going to the shore
bIQ'a' HeHDaq vIjaH
I am going to the shore
(same as above, with the {-Daq} being unnecessary but not wrong)
if the above are correct, and the {nargh} "to escape" is to be treated
as a verb of movement, then why not: {ghe''orvo' vInarghpu'} ?</pre>
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</span><p>I don't think <b>nargh</b> is a verb of movement. But even if it
were, notice the difference between <b>-Daq</b> and <b>-vo'</b>:</p>
<p><b>-Daq</b> has two senses: <i>going</i><i> to</i> a place or <i>being</i><i>
at</i> a place. <b>-vo'</b> has only one sense: <i>going from</i>
a place. It doesn't seem to have a corresponding meaning of <i>being
away from</i> a place.</p>
<p>When you say <b>vaS'a'Daq jIjaH,</b> the special rules of verbs
of motion mean you're forced to pick just one of the usual <b>-Daq</b>
meanings: <i>being at</i> a place. This makes it mean something
like, <i>at the Great Hall, I go.</i> But <b>jaH</b> can also
take an object that represents the destination. <b>vaS'a' vIjaH</b>
<i>I go to the Great Hall.</i> The<i> to</i> meaning is inherent
to the verb. So adding <b>-Daq</b> to that noun doesn't change
the inherent <i>to</i> of the verb, forcing you into the meaning
of <i>to </i>a place.<br>
</p>
<p>The reason you can add <b>-Daq</b> to the object of such words,
even though that doesn't seem to happen with other words, is that
the <i>to</i> is already built in. You're just making explicit
what comes inherently with the verb.</p>
<p>But <b>-vo'</b> does not seem to be inherent in verbs of motion,
at least not as Okrand presented them. When he was describing the
verb <b>leng,</b> he gave us <b>yuQ vIlegh</b> and <b>yuQDaq
vIlegh</b> <i>I travel to the planet,</i><b> yuQvo' jIleng</b><i>
I roam away from the planet,</i> and <b>yuQDaq jIleng</b><i> I
roam around/about the planet.</i> He conspicuously doesn't give
us <b>*yuQvo' vIleng.</b> His example <b>yuQvo' jIleng</b>
apparently doesn't mean <i>I roam in a place away from the
planet.</i><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
</font></span></p><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<pre class="m_7144054762182831352moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="m_7144054762182831352moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name" target="_blank">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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