<div dir="ltr">Not sure if this is helpful at all, but when we needed to say "You Must" in "A Klingon Christmas Carol", we had the character instead say <'ut>. Specifically, "It it essential".<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 9:35 AM, André Müller <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:esperantist@gmail.com" target="_blank">esperantist@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div>I do not have any strong opinion on {-nIS} and for which kind of obligation to use it. But I have a fairly complete corpus of sentences, and the following are the ones for the suffix {-nIS}. They contain all sentences with this suffix that I'm aware of, including the ones from the paq'bath. The ones marked with * after it are sentences lacking an English translation, where I came up with one myself.<br><br></div>For many sentences one could argue in length if it's an outside force and if consequences are implied, and I leave this discussion to others. Maybe someone wants to go through them and have a look. <br><br></div><div>If you find anything interesting, please let us know!<br><br>- - - - - - -8< - - - - - -<br></div><div><div><div><br><br>vIleghnIS.
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 0.6cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_GlossEnglish">«I need to see him/her.»</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.4cm 0cm 0cm 0.3cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_Example">bISopnIS.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 0.6cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_GlossEnglish">«You need to eat.»</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.4cm 0cm 0cm 0.3cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_Example">mataHmeH maSachnIS.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 0.6cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_GlossEnglish">«To survive, we must expand.»</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.4cm 0cm 0cm 0.3cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_Example">yInlu'taH 'e' bajnISlu'.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 0.6cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_GlossEnglish">«Survival must be earned.»</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.4cm 0cm 0cm 0.3cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_Example">DaH jIbwIj vISay'nISmoH.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 0.6cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_GlossEnglish">«I must wash my hair now.»</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.4cm 0cm 0cm 0.3cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_Example">jaghpu' mo' wIyajnIS. [slang]</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 0.6cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_GlossEnglish">«We must understand the enemies' motive.»</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.4cm 0cm 0cm 0.3cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_Example">maSopnISbej.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 0.6cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_GlossEnglish">«We certainly need to eat.»</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.4cm 0cm 0cm 0.3cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_Example">vIchennISmoH.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 0.6cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_GlossEnglish">«I need to create it.»</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.4cm 0cm 0cm 0.3cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_Example">yay chavlu' 'e' bajnISlu'.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 0.6cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_GlossEnglish">«Victory must be earned.»</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.4cm 0cm 0cm 0.3cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_Example">DIHIvlaHtaHvIS DaH DIHIvnIS!</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 0.6cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_GlossEnglish">«Attack them now, while we still can!»</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.4cm 0cm 0cm 0.3cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_Example">vergh 'ach DIlnISbe'</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 0.6cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_GlossEnglish">«free parking»</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.4cm 0cm 0cm 0.3cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_Example">Qel vISamnIS.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 0.6cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_GlossEnglish">«I need to find a doctor. / I need a doctor.»</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.4cm 0cm 0cm 0.3cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_Example">vIghochnISlaH...</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 0.6cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_GlossEnglish">«I could track them down...*»</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.4cm 0cm 0cm 0.3cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_Example">DungDaq legh 'ej QotnIStaH romuluSngan be'pu'!</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 0.6cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_GlossEnglish">«Romulan women belong on their backs!»</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.4cm 0cm 0cm 0.3cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_Example">chalDaq DapawmeH wutlhDaq bInejnIS.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 0.6cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_GlossEnglish">«To reach the heavens, you must seek underground.»</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.4cm 0cm 0cm 0.3cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_Example">nIteb bIwuqnIS.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 0.6cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_GlossEnglish">«The choice is yours.»</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.4cm 0cm 0cm 0.3cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_Example">qaghobnISchugh maghobchuq!</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 0.6cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_GlossEnglish">«I will fight you if I must!»</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.4cm 0cm 0cm 0.3cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_Example">molor DaQapbe'nISmoH.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 0.6cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_GlossEnglish">«Molor must be stopped.»</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.4cm 0cm 0cm 0.3cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_Example">jISeH'eghnIS[,] / muDechbogh Dochmey vISeHnIS[,] / Hoch vISeHnIS.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 0.6cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_GlossEnglish">«I must take control / Of myself, my surroundings, everything!»</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.4cm 0cm 0cm 0.3cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_Example">lojmItDaj veghta'DI' jubbe'wI' / yInqa'meH chegh 'e' botnIS qotar.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 0.6cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_GlossEnglish">«Still, Kotar cannot let a mortal / Pass his gates and return alive.»</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.4cm 0cm 0cm 0.3cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_Example">qeylIS HoHmeH qotar qeylIS SamnIS.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 0.6cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_GlossEnglish">«Kahless must be hunted down and killed.»</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.4cm 0cm 0cm 0.3cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_Example">bImej 'e' vIchaw'mo' / ghe'tor cheghDI' loDnI'wI' vavwI' je[,] / chaH DatlhejnIS.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 0.6cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_GlossEnglish">«In return, you must go back / With your brother and father / To the Underworld.»</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.4cm 0cm 0cm 0.3cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_Example">jIlay'ta' 'ej batlh jIpabta'[,] / vaj choDanIS.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 0.6cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_GlossEnglish">«I have kept my word of honor, / And so should you.»</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.4cm 0cm 0cm 0.3cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_Example">Qochbe'nIS.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 0.6cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_GlossEnglish">«He/she/they need(s) to not disagree. / He/she/they need(s) to agree.»</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.4cm 0cm 0cm 0.3cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_Example">QochnISbe'.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 0.6cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_GlossEnglish">«He/she/they do(es) not need to disagree.»</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.4cm 0cm 0cm 0.3cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_Example">ngajmo' jajvam, nom bIlopnIS.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 0.6cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_GlossEnglish">«Because this day is short, you have to celebrate it quickly.*»</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.4cm 0cm 0cm 0.3cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_Example">tugh QInvam lulaDlaH ghojwI'pu' chu' 'ej QaHnISbe' jatlhwI'pu' po'qu'.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 0.6cm">
<span class="m_-6017419615708911561gmail-lex_GlossEnglish">«Soon the new learners can read this message and the expert speakers don't need to help.*»</span></p><br><br>- - - - - - ->8 - - - - - -<br><br></div><div>I haven't entered the sentences from that aeronautics museum presentation yet. And Voragh might have some more sentences that I lack. So mine are not exhaustive.<br><br></div><div>- André<br></div></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div class="h5">2016-11-15 16:05 GMT+01:00 SuStel <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sustel@trimboli.name" target="_blank">sustel@trimboli.name</a>></span>:<br></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="h5">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div class="m_-6017419615708911561m_570467098148422518moz-cite-prefix">On 11/14/2016 5:40 PM, Lieven wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">I only see that canon examples sometimes use "must"
and sometimes "need". Maybe it's me again proving my lack of
english knowledge that you see more than I do? Or is this up to
personal interpretation?
<br>
</blockquote>
<p><a href="http://www.engvid.com/modals-of-necessity/" target="_blank">Here's</a>
an excellent video explanation of the difference between <i>need</i>
and <i>have to</i> (and <i>have to</i> equals <i>must</i>). It
says that <i>have to</i> focuses on the consequences of not doing
something, while <i>need</i> focuses on the benefit of doing
something. If you <i>have to</i> do something, there is some
agency requiring it of you; this is not the case with <i>need.</i><br>
</p>
<p>However, the reality isn't all that clear-cut. People interchange
<i>need, must,</i> and <i>have to</i> all the time.</p>
<p>For instance, while <b>nIteb SuvnIS DevwI'<i> </i></b>is
translated with <i>must</i> instead of <i>need,</i> there is no
sense in this sentence that any agency is imposing lone-fighting
on a leader; rather, it's saying that a leader has a personal
necessity of lone-fighting. So don't count too much on these terms
having distinct meanings when used in colloquial English.</p>
<p>Now, if someone wants to pull up a few instances of <b>-nIS</b>
being used where an agency is imposing an action and consequences
of failure on the subject, and not just instances where the
English translation uses <i>must,</i> I'll be happy to revise my
opinion.<span class="m_-6017419615708911561HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
</font></span></p><span class="m_-6017419615708911561HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<pre class="m_-6017419615708911561m_570467098148422518moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="m_-6017419615708911561m_570467098148422518moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name" target="_blank">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
</font></span></div>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-size:12.8px"><font size="2"><b>Christopher Kidder-Mostrom</b><br></font></div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><font size="2"><u><br>Current Projects: </u></font></div><ul><li><font size="2" style="font-size:12.8px"><b>Director: </b>"Black Friday" (Part of </font><span style="text-align:center"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" size="2"><i>Seven Plays </i><span style="font-style:italic"><span>in Seven Days</span></span><i>: Seasoned Greetings</i>) produced by The Traveler and the Seeker @ CityLit Theatre ... December 13, 2016</font></span></li><li style="font-size:12.8px"><font size="2"><b>Drama Critic:</b> reviewing for <i><a href="http://www.theatre1234.com/" target="_blank">Theatre By Numbers</a></i></font></li><li style="font-size:12.8px"><font size="2"><b>Board Member:</b> Illinois Theatre Association - Professional Division Rep</font></li></ul></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><a href="http://www.christopherokidder.com" target="_blank"></a></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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