<div dir="ltr">mughwI':<br><br>You have indeed surpassed my understanding of the nuances of Klingon writing. I understand your questions, but I believe that an advanced speaker (I am only intermediate/conversational) would have more opinions re: the particular inflections you are asking about. I find myself more capable as a speaker of Klingon, rather than as a writer; in which sense other, verbal cues could do this work.<div><br></div><div>If in the future you have a question that you think is of basic or beginners' relevance, then please continue to use the KLBC tag. Otherwise, as you say, feel free not to do so so that no one feels obligated to wait. As we've all said, your Klingon capabilities are marvelous given that you have just begun! Keep it up! Qapla'!</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><font color="#808080" face="Arial, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10.6667px"><br>--<br><br><a href="http://www.socialistalternative.org/" target="_blank">Socialist Alternative</a></span></font><div><font color="#808080" face="Arial, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10.6667px"><a href="http://www.kli.org/" target="_blank">Klingon Language Institute</a></span></font></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 30, 2016 at 4:46 AM, Aurélie Demonchaux <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:demonchaux.aurelie@gmail.com" target="_blank">demonchaux.aurelie@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default"><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif">Thanks all for your reply! (Hoch tujangta’mo’ qatlho’!)<span></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif"><br></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif">@<span></span></span></b><font face="times new roman, serif"><b>Quvar valer 'utlh</b></font></p><span class="">
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><span style="font-family:"times new roman",serif"><font color="#0000ff">Savan!</font></span></blockquote><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif"><font color="#0000ff">Your
message marked as KLBC is directed to one person only, so it may be more
correct to say {qavan}, but that's really nitpicking ;-)</font></span></blockquote>
</span><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif">jIyaj, Dochmey mach jISaH je!<span></span></span></p><span class="">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif"><span> </span></span></p>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif"><font color="#0000ff">What I actually wanted to say is that you speak so
much Klingon already, that you are not a true "beginner".</font></span></blockquote></span><div><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif">qatlho’ </span><span lang="EN-US"><font face="wingdings">:)</font></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif"> ’ach Dochmey law’ tu’lu’ ’e’ wej vIghojta’.</span></div><span class="">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif"><span> </span></span></p>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif"><font color="#0000ff">PS: if possible, deactivate autoformatting for
apostrophes.</font></span></blockquote>
</span><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif">qaghwI' vIvevmo’, DaH <Alt + 0146> vIlo’
’e’ vIwaH.<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif"><span> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif">@Voragh:<span></span></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif">qu’! pab lo’mey cho’aghta’mo’ qatlho’ </span><span lang="EN-US"><font face="wingdings">:)</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif"><span> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif">@’arHa:<span></span></span></b></p><span class="">
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif"><font color="#0000ff">“jaqbogh ’ach
maw’bogh ’ej wochbogh yaS Qup vIlegh.”<br></font></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif"><font color="#0000ff">I think
this is alright but why do it that way? -> Consider: {{yaS Qup vIlegh. jaq,
woch... 'ach maw'qu'!}}</font></span></blockquote>
</span><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif">Yes it makes sense too. But in this case, wouldn’t it
shift the focus of the text? <span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif">1/ “jaqbogh ’ach maw’bogh ’ej wochbogh yaS Qup vIlegh”<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif">I feel that here the focus of the sentence is more on
the description of the officer that I’m seeing, with his 1<sup>st</sup> three
attributes <jaq>, <maw’>, <woch> on an equal footing, and
<Qup> being considered the most essential attribute, since it’s directly
added after <yaS>. <span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif">We can show the highlight as below:<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif"><I see a <b><u>young</u>
officer</b>, (who is) tall, bold but crazy.><span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif">The way I interpret things (and correct me if I’m
wrong) is that, in Klingon, if we put a normal adjective just after the noun,
then it would be considered as the noun’s main / defining attribute, and the
relative clauses would then describe secondary attributes.<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif">Following this assumption, if we shuffle it around a
bit, we could insist more on the fact that the main attribute of the officer
is, for example, being “tall” instead of “young”:<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif">“jaqbogh ’ach maw’bogh ’ej Qupbogh yaS woch vIlegh”<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif"><I see a <b><u>tall</u>
officer</b>, (who is) young, bold but crazy.><span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif">or if we want to put absolutely all attributes on an
equal footing, then we use –bogh everywhere, so the main object of the
sentence is no longer a tall or young officer (who is bold but crazy…), but
just “an officer” (who is young, tall etc):<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif">“Qupbogh ’ej wochbogh ’ej jaqbogh ’ach maw’bogh yaS
vIlegh”<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif"><I see a young, tall, bold but crazy <b>officer</b>.><span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:"times new roman",serif"><span> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:"times new roman",serif">2/ yaS Qup
vIlegh. jaq, woch... </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif">'ach maw'qu'<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif">Here there are 2 statements so each statement
highlights a different focus point.<span></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif"><br></span></p>
<font face="times new roman, serif">- yaS Qup vIlegh : focus on “I see an officer” (the “core” part of the action, with no descriptive element)<br>- jaq, woch... 'ach maw'qu': the description of the officer that I see, with an emphasis on “… but he is really crazy”</font>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif">So it seems to bring a different nuance from what I'd suggested. <span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif"><span> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif">Sorry if I over-analyze it though! (I like to go into
the details, and this is also really important in translation) Let me know what
you think </span><span lang="EN-US"><font face="wingdings">:)</font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><font face="wingdings"><br></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif">Also, next time, maybe it’s best if I don’t use the KLBC
anymore, so everyone is free to join the conversation directly if they want. <span></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"times new roman",serif"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font face="times new roman, serif">~mughwI'</font></p></div></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2016-09-30 0:35 GMT+02:00 John R. Harness <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:cartweel@gmail.com" target="_blank">cartweel@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Hi all --<span><br><br>Lieven:<br>"<span style="font-size:12.8px">And regarding your question, </span><span style="font-size:12.8px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">you</span><span style="font-size:12.8px"> already answered it yourself - but I'll let the BG tell </span><span style="font-size:12.8px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">you</span><span style="font-size:12.8px"> why."</span><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div></span><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">Actually I don't know why, other than that's how people do it. Maybe because it starts to produce parsing errors?</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">mughwI':</font></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">“jaqbogh ‘ach maw’bogh ‘ej wochbogh yaS Qup vIlegh.”</span><span style="font-size:12.8px"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">I think this is alright but why do it that way? -> Consider: {{yaS Qup vIlegh. jaq, woch... 'ach maw'qu'!}}</span></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">'arHa</div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><font color="#808080" face="Arial, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10.6667px"><br>--<br><br><a href="http://www.socialistalternative.org/" target="_blank">Socialist Alternative</a></span></font><div><font color="#808080" face="Arial, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10.6667px"><a href="http://www.kli.org/" target="_blank">Klingon Language Institute</a></span></font></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><div class="m_8395170958200737900h5">
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Steven Boozer <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sboozer@uchicago.edu" target="_blank">sboozer@uchicago.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Lieven:<br>
<span>> And regarding your question, you already answered it yourself - but I'll<br>
> let the BG tell you why.<br>
<br>
</span>Aurélie Demonchaux:<br>
<span>>> Is there a canon reference somewhere listing several adjectives<br>
>> linked to the same noun? As in:<br>
<br>
</span>While we're waiting for the BG here are the references you requested:<br>
<br>
romuluSngan Sambogh 'ej HoHbogh nejwI'<br>
Romulan hunter-killer probe (KCD)<br>
<br>
SuDbogh Dargh 'ej wovbogh<br>
The tea that is {SuD} and light. (KGT)<br>
(i.e. light green tea)<br>
<br>
Suto'vo'qor botlhDaq<br>
pe'vIl joqchu'taH<br>
quvbogh 'ej valbogh tIqDu' tIQ<br>
[translation unavailable] (PB)<br>
<br>
<br>
This last example is controversial so I wouldn't advise using it:<br>
<br>
yoHbogh matlhbogh je SuvwI'<br>
Say'moHchu' may' 'Iw<br>
The blood of battle washes clean<br>
the warrior brave and true. (Anthem)<br>
<br>
It's the only known example of the pattern {X-bogh Y-bogh je NOUN} -- possibly because it's a song lyric and the translation had to fit the meter.<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Voragh<br>
tlhIngan ghantoH pIn'a'<br>
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons<br>
<div><div><br>
<br>
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