<p dir="ltr">maj. I accept your explanation, and I will update/correct my notes/data base.</p>
<p dir="ltr">SuStel, jIHvaD pabvam DaQIjta'mo' qatlho'.</p>
<p dir="ltr">qunnoq<br>
ghogh HablI'wIjvo' vIngeHta'</p>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 19 Sep 2016 8:03 p.m., "SuStel" <<a href="mailto:sustel@trimboli.name">sustel@trimboli.name</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>On 9/19/2016 12:18 PM, mayqel qunenoS
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>SuStel:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>But I can tell you that -lu' does not mean "someone does something to someone."
It means "someone or something unspecified or abstract does something." Maybe
it's done to something, maybe not.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>This confuses me greatly;
I read again section 4.2.5. of tkd, and yes the first thing it says is
"This suffix is used to indicate that the subject is unknown,
indefinite, and/or general".
On the other hand though, immediately it continues by saying: "Since
the subject is always the same (that is, it is always unstated), the
pronominal prefixes (section 4.1.1) are used in a different way". And
proceeds by giving examples of the kind "someone/something does
something to someone/something".
Even the example {Soplu'} is given as "it is eaten". Of course it
could be also taken as "someone eats it"; but, how can someone write
{Soplu'} in order to say "someone eats (period)" ?</pre>
</blockquote>
<p>If I wrote <b>Sop HoD,</b> does it mean <i>the captain eats</i>
or <i>the captain eats it?</i> It means both! You know that.</p>
<p>So why should it trouble you that <b>Soplu'</b> means both <i>one
eats</i> and <i>one eats it?</i><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>Perhaps you will answer by saying "even if you say someone eats
(period), then again *that* someone is eating something so we
essentially say the same thing".
ok.. perhaps I can see your point; but my problem is that the tkd does
not have a single example like {yItlu'} for "someone is walking", or
{neplu'} for "someone is lying" etc. So, how can we accept such a
usage of {-lu'} ?</pre>
</blockquote>
<p>How about <b>quSDaq ba'lu''a'</b><i> Is this seat taken?</i> in
the appendix?<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>SuStel:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>The difference is that vay' indicates a definite "someone,"
while -lu' might be used when that someone is more abstract
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>I can't understand this either; how is {lu'} abstract and {vay'}
definite ? Both mean someone. Someone unknown/unspecified. I can't see
any difference between them.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<b>vay'</b> is a subject; <b>-lu'</b> is just the lack of a
subject.<b> -lu'</b> means "Obviously something or someone does this
action, but I'm not gonna say what it is."<br>
<pre cols="72">--
SuStel
<a href="http://trimboli.name" target="_blank">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
</div>
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