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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/19/2016 11:38 AM, mayqel qunenoS
wrote:<br>
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cite="mid:CAP7F2cJtU4x0rU6YJMbsRgXVnJ_Q2UDNZywukU9FQQkgcd+Ymw@mail.gmail.com"
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<pre wrap="">It always pisses me off, to read canon sentences which make no sense ;
</pre>
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<pre wrap="">matlhHa'lu'chugh vaj Doghlu' 'e' yaymeH molor
</pre>
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<pre wrap="">the way I understand the use of the suffix {-lu'}, and the way we have
discussed it here so many months, it is used to mean that "someone
does something to someone" ; not that "someone does something period".
For the latter purpose we use {vay'}; not {-lu'}.</pre>
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<p>I don't happen to have <i>paq'batlh</i> handy, so I can't tell
you what the actual English version says, and I don't know what <b>yaymeH</b>
means.</p>
<p>But I can tell you that <b>-lu'</b> does not mean "someone does
something to someone." It means "someone or something unspecified
or abstract does something." Maybe it's done to something, maybe
not.</p>
<blockquote>
<p><b>matlhHa'lu'chugh<br>
</b><i>if someone unspecified is disloyal<br>
</i></p>
<p><b>Doghlu'<br>
</b><i>someone unspecified is foolish</i><br>
</p>
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<pre wrap="">If I want to say "someone confuses me" I will say {vImISmoHlu'}, and
if I want to say "someone is confused" I will write {mIS vay'}. I
can't write {mISlu'} meaning that "someone is confused".</pre>
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<p>Sure you can. The difference is that <b>vay'</b> indicates a
definite "someone," while <b>-lu'</b> might be used when that
someone is more abstract (though it doesn't necessarily mean
that).<br>
</p>
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<pre wrap="">At the aforementioned jay' sentence we obviously have a meaning which
goes something like "if someone is disloyal then someone is
foolish..", and in order to describe this intended meaning we see the
words {matlhHa'lu'chugh} and {Doghlu'} respectively.
Are we serious ?</pre>
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<p><b>HIja'</b></p>
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<pre wrap="">qorDu' SaHlu'chugh 'ej matlhlu'chugh vaj wa' tlhIngan ghob potlhqu'
</pre>
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<pre wrap="">The {qorDu' SaHlu'chugh} is correct. But when it comes to the
{matlhlu'chugh} then again things make no sense. If the
{matlhlu'chugh} is used on its own in order to say "if someone is
loyal", then it is wrong. And if the {matlhlu'chugh} refers to the
{qorDu'}, then again we have the meaning "if someone cares for his
family, and if someone is loyal his family.."</pre>
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<blockquote>
<p><b>qorDu' SaHlu'chugh 'ej matlhlu'chugh</b><br>
<i>if one cares about family and if one is loyal</i><br>
</p>
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<pre wrap="">And as if all these weren't enough, when we read past the {vaj} the
sentence takes the meaning "then one (or one's) very important klingon
virtue" and then period. ?!?!?!</pre>
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<p>The SkyBox cards have the most errors of all of Okrand's Klingon.
He did them pretty early on. For your own sanity, just accept
this.<br>
</p>
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<pre wrap="">And I will ask again.. Are we serious ? These are the kind of canon
sentences which are supposed to help people understand proper klingon
?
</pre>
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<br>
<p>The SkyBox cards never had the goal of helping people understand
proper Klingon. They were made for <i>Star Trek</i> fans.<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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