<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">
<p>In a subsequent post you express doubt about your aspect
suffixes. I will comment on them here, among other comments.</p>
<br>
On 8/23/2016 6:08 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAP7F2cJuw89RPFE51KkT7W_3sokTV=jCi02KvXYy0YJsnRxg_g@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">*lurtz*vaD QIjtaH *saruman* ; jatlhtaH:</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>I wouldn't normally expect a <b>-taH</b> here. It's not wrong
per se, but the fact that his speech is ongoing isn't really
relevant, is it? You want to talk about the fact of what he said,
rather than the fact of its being ongoing.</p>
<p>Hasta lut DaDeltaH. paq vImaSchu'. Qatlhqu' <i>Qeb joH</i>
mughmeH Qu'.<br>
</p>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAP7F2cJuw89RPFE51KkT7W_3sokTV=jCi02KvXYy0YJsnRxg_g@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">chay' orcs chenmoHlu'ta' ? bISov'a' ?</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>Considering the English original, "Do you know how the Orcs first
came into being?" it seems to me that your aspect suffix here is
correct. Saruman is asking how <i>were</i> the Orcs made, not how
<i>are</i> Orcs made. It was an event. Completion makes sense
here.</p>
<p>Sometimes one will pluralize a foreign word using the native
language's plurals, and sometimes one use the foreign language's
plurals. You've chosen the latter. I'll stick with that in this
reply.<br>
</p>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAP7F2cJuw89RPFE51KkT7W_3sokTV=jCi02KvXYy0YJsnRxg_g@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">wa'DIch elves chaHpu'</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>This use of an ordinal at the beginning of a sentence is still
new enough to us that I'm not completely comfortable with it, but
I accept it as canonical. However, you have two choices here:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><b>wa'DIch </b><i>elves</i><b> chaH<br>
</b><i>first they were elves</i></p>
<p><i>elves</i><b> chaHpu'<br>
</b><i>they had been elves</i></p>
</blockquote>
<p>You don't want both together; that means <i>first they had been
elves,</i> which suggests that when you start ("first") they had
already completed being elves, or that first they are elves for a
moment.<br>
</p>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAP7F2cJuw89RPFE51KkT7W_3sokTV=jCi02KvXYy0YJsnRxg_g@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> 'ach quchta' HoSwI'pu' Hurgh ;</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>This one's a toughie. On the one hand, knowing my <i>Silmarillion</i>,
I know that elves weren't taken by the servants of Melkor all at
once; while they lived at Cuiviénen his shadows and spirits spied
on them and waylaid them. <b>quch</b> (without the <b>-ta'</b>)
is really more appropriate.</p>
<p>On the other hand, if you're going strictly by what Saruman says
in the movie, you'd really have no way of knowing that. You might
well think he was referring to a single raid in which Melkor
captured a bunch of elves. In that case, <b>-ta'</b> would be
appropriate.<br>
</p>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAP7F2cJuw89RPFE51KkT7W_3sokTV=jCi02KvXYy0YJsnRxg_g@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> joy'ta'</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>Same note. <b>joy'</b> is more appropriate for what the book
describes, but for all you know in the movie when Saruman speaks
it could have been <b>joy'ta'.</b><br>
</p>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAP7F2cJuw89RPFE51KkT7W_3sokTV=jCi02KvXYy0YJsnRxg_g@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> 'ej
porghchaj luQaw'ta'..</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>Drop the <b>lu-.</b> Also, same note regarding aspect here.<br>
</p>
<p>You might want to use <b>rIQmoH</b> instead of <b>Qaw'</b>
here. I don't feel either quite captures <i>mutilate,</i> though.</p>
<p>I'm out of time for now. See if you can apply this to the rest of
your translation.<br>
</p>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAP7F2cJuw89RPFE51KkT7W_3sokTV=jCi02KvXYy0YJsnRxg_g@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> tagha' ghot rIQchu' mojpu'.. lo'laHbe'pu' chaH..
ghot luQaw'lu'chu'ta'bogh chaH. 'ach DaH povchoH chaH !
SuvmeH *uruk-hai*wIj.. 'Iv Datoy' ?
('ej ngugh jang lurtz) : Saruman !!!
qunnoq
_______________________________________________
tlhIngan-Hol mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org">tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org">http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p><br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
</body>
</html>