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<p>I see two reasons why {bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay'.} is more valid than {bortaS tlhap}:<br>
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1) It's canonical; it's listed in The Klingon Way by Marc Okrand, and both in that book and in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan it is described as a Klingon proverb.</p>
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<p>2) It's metaphorical. In the saying, revenge is explicitly referred to as a dish; thus it makes sense to use verbs that you would use to describe actions involving dishes.</p>
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<p>> rules are rules. either accept "terran carry-overs"</p>
<p>> or reject them altogether.</p>
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<p>Absolutely not. Language is erratic, which is why we cherish canonical examples.</p>
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<p>There are plenty of examples in natural languages where one expression exists in two different languages but another does not.</p>
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<p>For example, in both French and English you might say "I am tired." ("Je suis fatigué.") or "I am sad." ("Je suis triste."), but in French you should not say "I am warm." ("Je suis chaud.") but rather "I have heat." ("J'ai chaud."), and instead of "I am
hungry." ("Je suis faim.") you have to say "I have hunger." ("J'ai faim.")</p>
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<p>In both English and Swedish you can say that something "takes time" ("tar tid"), and in both languages you can say that you "Devote your time" ("Ägnar din tid") to something. However, in English you can also "Spend your time" doing something, but when I
once wrote in an essay that I "spenderar min tid" doing something, my Swedish teacher crossed it over with a red pen and said I was thinking too much in English.</p>
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<p>In English, the word "full" can mean either "filled" or "satiated". In Swedish, the word "full" means either "filled" or "drunk". In German, the word "voll" means either "filled" or "satiated" or "drunk".<br>
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<p>In Klingon, the word {Sov} carried the double meaning of "be aware of (a fact)" and "be acquainted with (a person)", which - at least as far as I'm aware - is fairly unique to English.
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<p>However, unlike English, Klingon uses different words for "play" depending on if it's a structured game (Quj), just playing around (reH) or playing an instrument (chu', or one of the more specific musical verbs).</p>
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<p>There is no universal law which says that either languages must share all double meanings or none at all. The expression {bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay'} explains to us that this particular double meaning *does* exist in both Klingon and English, at
least when speaking metaphorically. If we did not have that canonical example to go by, that would no longer be a safe assumption.<br>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><b>From:</b> tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org> on behalf of mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, August 7, 2016 15:57<br>
<b>To:</b> tlhIngan Hol mailing list<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [tlhIngan Hol] The contradiction of {bortaS}</font>
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<p dir="ltr">this argument is invalid ; it sounds like "shut up don't ask ; you will accept one phrase and reject another because we say so, and you'll like it".</p>
<p dir="ltr">rules are rules. either accept "terran carry-overs" or reject them altogether.</p>
<p dir="ltr">mop qIj qunnoq<br>
Sent from my goat phone</p>
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<div class="gmail_quote">On 7 Aug 2016 4:51 p.m., "MorphemeAddict" <<a href="mailto:lytlesw@gmail.com">lytlesw@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution">
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<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:courier new,monospace">The difference is that *bortaS bIr jablu'* is an attested native (canonical) Klingon phrase, whereas *bortaS tlhap* is not so attested. Languages can share the same metaphor, but don't have
to. </div>
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<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:courier new,monospace">lay'tel SIvten</div>
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<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 4:24 AM, mayqel qunenoS <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com" target="_blank">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:1px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex">
<p dir="ltr"><br>
Some time ago we had said, that we can't say {bortaS vItlhap} for "I take revenge". Why ? Because the "I take revenge" is an english phrase.</p>
<p dir="ltr">On the other hand, we do say "bortas bIr jabblu' go figure", which is definitely an english phrase.</p>
<p dir="ltr">This is a contradictory situation which confuses me greatly.</p>
<p dir="ltr">mop qIj qunnoq<br>
Sent from my goat phone</p>
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