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<p>"This suffix is used only with plural subjects. It is
translated <i>each other</i> or <i>one another.</i> The prefix
set indicating 'no object' is also used when this suffix is
used."</p>
<p>Exception.</p>
<p>The combination of <b>-chuq</b> and <b>-moH</b> have never
been used prior to <i>paq'batlh</i>, and no one on this list
has ever pointed it out before mayqel.</p>
<p>New.</p>
<p>As far as valency and transitivity go, you can analyze Klingon
sentences like that, but I don't think Okrand thinks of them
that way, and they don't help predict unusual grammar. Those are
semantic tools; Okrand is obeying syntax and letting the
semantics take care of themselves. The subject <b>qeylIS</b> is
performing an action; the direct object <b>Qo'noS tuqmey</b> is
having something done to it. Syntax, without regard to meaning.
That the houses are being made to join each other is irrelevant
to the placement of the subject and object. What's new and
exceptional is the verb's rule-breaking situation.<br>
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<br>
On 7/28/2016 10:29 AM, André Müller wrote:<br>
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cite="mid:CABDLMbWBn+EFa4NQf8YRkO_Gjn_uFqpmrmq-fmeKXLLDjuBA1w@mail.gmail.com"
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<div>It's neither an exception nor something
new. I don't think (m)any of us would be
surprised about this sentence. While {-chuq}
reduces the valency, making a transitive verb
intransitive, {-moH}, being a causative
suffix, increases the valency by adding
another argument. Intransitive verbs become
transitive, and transitive verbs actually
remain transitive, but another oblique
argument is added (see the famous example with
Worf's sash).<br>
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Now, any verb with {-chuq} is by definition
intransitive, so adding {-moH} naturally makes
it transitive again, turning the meaning into
something like "S makes O verb each other". I
don't recall if I have ever used these two
suffixes together, but their use seems quite
natural to me and I would've formed the sentence
the same way.<br>
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Schematically:<br>
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S verbs. (intransitive, e.g. {'IH})<br>
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S verbs O. (transitive, e.g. {legh})<br>
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S&S verb each other. (reciprocal, e.g. {leghchuq})<br>
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S makes O&O verb each other. (reciprocal+causative,
e.g. {leghchuqmoH})<br>
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S&S and O&O I just use to show that they must in
some way refer to plural entities.<br>
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I don't quite see what's new about it. But perhaps I just
always assumed that it works this way and am thus not
surprised about this sentence.<br>
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- André<br>
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<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2016-07-28 15:18 GMT+02:00 SuStel <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sustel@trimboli.name" target="_blank">sustel@trimboli.name</a>></span>:<br>
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<div>On 7/28/2016 2:45 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:<br>
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<pre>read this :
Qo'noS tuqmey muvchuqmoH qeylIS
kahless united the tribes of kronos
..good for him ; but for the rest of us, why the {muvchuqmoH} takes an object ?
according to tkd, when the {-chuq} suffix is used, the verb prefix
must indicate "no object". that is the word which bears the {-chuq}
can't take an object. the ones that are {-chuq"ed"}, must be the
recipients of each others actions. they can't {-chuq} each other, and
then all of them together {-chuq} someone else too.
now, perhaps this sentence stands because we have the {-moH}, on the
{muvchuq} ; but even so, I can't bring myself to *feeling* the
combined meaning of {-chuq} {-moH} with that of a subject too.
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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