[tlhIngan Hol] {mej} with and without {-vo'}

SuStel sustel at trimboli.name
Thu May 26 08:20:26 PDT 2022

On 5/26/2022 11:07 AM, Iikka Hauhio wrote:
> SuStel:
>     And by the way, the gloss of*ghoS*also includes "go away from." I
>     have no doubt that you could say things like*bIQtIqvo' vIghoS*/I
>     go away from the river./*ghoS*can impart an ablative meaning to
>     its object instead of a locative meaning, so we should not be
>     surprised if adding the ablative suffix to the object has no
>     effect on the sentence besides being redundant.
>> Is there evidence that *ghoS* can add the ablative meaning to its 
> object? *ghoS* is used tens of times in canon and every time its 
> object doesn't have any type-5 suffix it means "go (to)".

Perhaps you missed the qualifiers I sprinkled in liberally to avoid 
someone challenging me to prove what I was saying. "I have no doubt." 
"We should not be surprised if."

> When *ghoS* is used to mean "go away from", it has *-vo'*:
>     *chaH neH wovmoHlu'be'
>     *
>     *chaH 'emvo' ghoS
>     *
>     *SuvwI'pu' mangghom **yoH*
>     /The sun shone not on them only,
>     /
>     /Behind them came
>     /
>     /An army of brave warriors.
>     /
>     (paq'batlh)
I believe that every time *ghoS* is used to mean "go away from," it is 
ambiguous whether the ablative is the object or not. And even if it's 
not, that just goes along with all those times *jaH* fails to make its 
locative destination the object.

> Based on the evidence we have I don't think we can say that a 
> nominative object could have an ablative meaning. I think the 
> definition just means that in some contexts (ie. when *-vo'* is used), 
> the verb can be translated with "go away from".

I didn't say the evidence shows what I said. I said I wouldn't be 
surprised if it were the case. The casualness with which *mej* can take 
a *-vo'* noun as its object doesn't strike me as *mej* being 
exceptional; it strikes me as a special connotation of something that 
might not be terribly remarkable.

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