[tlhIngan Hol] verb prefix on XvaD Y ponglu' construction when Y is plural

[Iikka Hauhio]

SuStel:

> Being a foreign word has nothing to do whether a word is treated as singular or plural. It's plural. It should be treated grammatically as plural.

​That isn't clear. For example, in Finnish, foreign plurals aren't acknoledged. Either the plural loaned word is treated as singular, or the foreign plural suffix is replaced with the Finnish plural suffix and then the word is a native plural word. In English, on the other hand, foreign plurals are acknoledged. We have no information on how Klingon works in this matter.

SuStel:

> Being a name is irrelevant here, since the Klingon grammar isn't "it is called 'X'" but "one names the Xes." Literally, the Klingon sentence isn't directly assigning a label to something; it is saying that you name something, which you identify with the label with which you name it.

​
YvaD X ponglu' doesn't mean "one names the Xs". I know that "name, call" is the gloss, but the grammar of pong does not match those English words. There is no English word that matches the grammar, but perhaps "is used" is somewhat similar in grammar: "[the name] X is used for Y". I imagine that the name doesn't even need to be a noun phrase, it could be a sentence: paqvaD «qul naj» ponglu'. In my opinion, if we imagine the name to be a kind of quote, whatever grammar it has is irrelevant from the point of view of the outer sentence.

Of course, since we have know info on this matter, it could very well work the way you suggest. I'm only trying to give a plausible reason why it could work the other way. You must be careful not to make claims that sound like facts when they are in reality speculation.

Iikka "fergusq" Hauhio

------- Original Message -------
On Wednesday, July 6th, 2022 at 17.46, SuStel <sustel at trimboli.name> wrote:

> On 7/6/2022 10:07 AM, Iikka Hauhio wrote:
>
>> SuStel:
>>
>>> Panatheneans,being plural, should be treated as plural when used as a foreign word in Klingon.yupma'vaD panatheneans ponglu'.
>>
>> ​
>>
>> I think there is an error in this message, since you use singular ponglu'. So do you think that the word should be treated as plural (and the verb should be luponglu'), or that the word should be treated as singular (and the verb should be ponglu')?
>>
>> In my opinion, the word should be treated as singular, since it's a name and a foreign word.
>
> Yes, I should have used the lu-.
>
> Being a foreign word has nothing to do whether a word is treated as singular or plural. It's plural. It should be treated grammatically as plural.
>
> Being a name is irrelevant here, since the Klingon grammar isn't "it is called 'X'" but "one names the Xes." Literally, the Klingon sentence isn't directly assigning a label to something; it is saying that you name something, which you identify with the label with which you name it.
>
> --
> SuStel
> http://trimboli.name
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