[tlhIngan Hol] thoughts on the perfective {-pu'}
SuStel
sustel at trimboli.name
Mon Apr 4 06:08:19 PDT 2022
On 4/4/2022 7:58 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
> 1. If I'm narrating events of the past using "historical present",
> i.e. describing them as they happen, then no perfective is used.
> 2. If I'm looking back from the present on actions performed and
> completed, then I use perfective.
> 3. If I'm looking back from the present on habitual events/actions of
> the past, events which can be described by the "used to", no
> perfective is used.
> 4. If I'm looking back from the present on completed events/actions of
> the past, which weren't habitual, but happened more than once,
> perfective is used:
> 5. If I'm looking back from the present on quality verbs, and the
> quality described can be described by the "used to", no perfective is
> used:
All good. I don't think I'd personally split them up this way, but I
don't disagree with anything here.
> 6. If I'm looking back from the present on quality verbs, but the
> quality described can't be described by the "used to", perfective is used:
>
>
> In the past the water has been hot
> In the past there was just one (or maybe two/three/more) occasion(s)
> when the water was hot
> (the second sentence describes the intended meaning)
>
> pa'logh tujpu' bIQ
>
> In the past the water often has been hot
> pa'logh pIj tujpu' bIQ
>
> This is the best I can do when it comes to understanding the {-pu'},
> and I'd love to hear whether you agree/disagree with the above.
This one I don't agree with. The words /used to/ aren't necessary to
avoid perfective; they're just a convenient, but incomplete, test to see
if you're thinking in terms of perfective or not. Besides, I don't see
why /the water has often been hot/ couldn't be said as /the water often
used to be hot./ So I don't think you're looking at /used to/ in quite
the right way.
I wouldn't use perfective on either of these. Even if you're describing
water that was only hot two or three times, you're still describing the
being hot, not a completed action of being hot. *'op ret**tuj bIQ*/in
the past, the water has been hot; /*'op ret**pIj tuj bIQ*/in the past,
the water has often been hot./ Putting the English translations into the
present perfect tense is a feature of English, not Klingon. Klingon
doesn't mark verbs for "past action that is relevant now" the way
English present perfect does. You could just as easily translate these
*'op ret tuj bIQ*/in the past, the water was hot/ and *'op ret pIj tuj
bIQ*/in the past, the water was often hot/ and still have a perfectly
correct translation. The concept of "past action, relevant now" doesn't
exist in the Klingon original.
(By the way, I believe *pa'logh* refers to the past as a whole, not to
some point in the past, which is *'op ret.* To refer to some action
taking place at the time *pa'logh* makes very little sense, as if the
whole of the past was just one little dot on a timeline.)
--
SuStel
http://trimboli.name
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