[tlhIngan Hol] {-'egh} and {-chuq} with {-lu'}

[Will Martin]

The thing to keep in mind here is that while the English passive voice CAN be a translation of the Klingon indefinite subject, the two are not equivalent. SuStel has pointed this out in the past. The English passive voice can have a subject, as in “The song was sung by the singer.”

If it were just “The song was sung”, that’s English passive voice and fits Klingon indefinite subject, but when you add “by the singer”, the English passive voice just defined the subject, and you can no longer use {-lu’} in the translation into Klingon.

There’s overlap, but not equivalence.

> On Sep 16, 2021, at 9:02 AM, SuStel <sustel at trimboli.name> wrote:
> 
> On 9/16/2021 5:47 AM, luis.chaparro at web.de <mailto:luis.chaparro at web.de> wrote:
>> As an aside: Maybe I'm wrong, but I've always thought of the way prefixes work with *-lu'* when there is an object as a funny way to reflect the typical transformations from active to passive, i.e., the object in active become the subject in passive and the subject in active become the agent in passive, so *One has eaten the cakes* (he / she - them) become *The cakes have been eaten by someone* (they - by him / her).
> You definitely shouldn't think of the Klingon indefinite subject as being related to any kind of passive voice. When you replace the subject with -lu', everything else about the clause remains the same except for the prefix.
> 
> jIH mulegh ghaH He sees me.
> 
> jIH vIleghlu' Someone unspecified sees me. (jIH remains the object.)
> 
> It's only in the English translation does anything to do with passive voice potentially appear.
> 
> We are told in TKD the reason the prefixes change with the indefinite subject:
> 
> Since the subject is always the same (that is, it is always unstated), the pronomial prefixes... are used in a different way. Those prefixes which normally indicate first- or second-person subject and third-person object... are used to indicate first- or second-person object.
> 
> 
> 
>> Just a short question: With no object *-lu'* takes always the prefix 0, right?
> Yes. Example: quSDaq ba'lu''a' Is this seat taken? (Literally, Does one sit in chair?)
> 
> -- 
> SuStel
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