[tlhIngan Hol] {ghIq} {ngugh} and time adverbs with time stamps

SuStel sustel at trimboli.name
Fri Oct 29 05:58:17 PDT 2021

On 10/29/2021 8:19 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
> God saideth in the holy scripture of tkd:
> -----words of god starteth-----
> It was earlier thought that all adverbials (except {neH} <only>) come
> at the beginning of the sentence. This is frequently the case, but
> what is really going on is that the adverbial precedes the
> object-verb-subject construction. It is possible for an element of
> another type to precede the adverb. Most commonly, this is a time
> element (a noun or phrase meaning <today, at six o'clock,> etc.).
> {DaHjaj nom Soppu'} <Today they ate quickly>
> -----words of god endeth-----
> And perhaps because of this tkd quote, we place time stamps at the
> beginning of the sentence, i.e. before any of the adverbs. But this
> creates the "problem" of where to place an adverb which has a "time
> stamp" flavor such as {ghIq}/{ngugh}. In the tkd example god used the
> {nom}, and there's nothing "off" in saying "today they ate quickly",
> or "today quickly they ate".
> But what if we wanted to say "On Monday we acquired the ship, and then
> on Tuesday the war started"?
> The logical thing to write is {DaSjaj Duj wISuqpu', 'ej ghIq povjaj
> taghpu' noH}; but this creates the problem of placing the adverb
> before the time stamp.
> Seemingly/apparently we need to write {DaSjaj Duj wISuqpu', 'ej povjaj
> ghIq taghpu' noH}; but there's something ugly in hearing "and on
> Tuesday, then the war started".
> So there are two options..
> Option A: Flush the words of god down the toilet, thus writing {ghIq
> povjaj taghpu' noH}.
> Option B: Placing a parenthetical time stamp in the following way:
> {ghIq -povjaj- taghpu' noH}.
> Of course someone can say that using the {ghIq} is redundant to begin
> with, and there's no problem with just saying {DaSjaj Duj wISuqpu',
> 'ej povjaj taghpu' noH}.
> But the problem (ok,*my*  problem), isn't how to express the desired
> meaning; it's rather finding out the order in which one should place
> time stamps and "time adverbs" together.

Your trouble comes about because in English (I dunno about Greek) /then/ 
can be used as a coordinating conjunction when it means /next./ The 
phrase /and then/ is basically a conjunction, so you want to put it 
before anything else.

But in Klingon. *ghIq* is an adverbial, not a conjunction, so you 
mustn't expect it to obey the grammar of English /and then./

If you think about *ghIq* as meaning "the thing that happened next was 
that," then you should find no problem imagining a time expression 
before it. *povjaj ghIq taghpu' noH*/On Tuesday, the thing that happened 
next was that the war started./

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.kli.org/pipermail/tlhingan-hol-kli.org/attachments/20211029/940b6191/attachment-0003.htm>

More information about the tlhIngan-Hol mailing list