[tlhIngan Hol] Noun-noun constructions with relative clauses

SuStel sustel at trimboli.name
Tue Nov 9 09:36:00 PST 2021

On 11/9/2021 12:04 PM, Will Martin wrote:
> It’s also strange that it’s forbidden to use a Type 7 suffix on the 
> second verb of a Sentence As Object construction (a ban created by 
> Okrand to cover a time when he forgot to use one), though he’s 
> subsequently broken his own ban and people often ignore it.

And those people deserve to suffer!

I've never heard that he created the ban to cover an instance where he 
himself forgot it. Rather, the sentence-as-object construction came 
about as a retrofit to a changed subtitle, and the new meaning didn't 
include a tense marker on the second verb, so he changed tenses to 
aspects and said no aspect markers on the second verb.

As for an in-universe explanation, I think the second verb was mostly 
supposed to be fairly simply, thinking and seeing things. "They are used 
primarily, though not exclusively, with verbs of thinking or 
observation..." As such, aspect is rarely applicable to them anyway; 
it's the aspect of the thing thought or seen that's important. When you 
deviate from the thinking and seeing verbs, the restriction on aspect 
markers seems more arbitrary.

> Then there’s the thing about the prefix {lu-} which we were told you 
> should use, though people often forget it exists, and then, well, 
> {lutu’lu’} never happens even when it should.

Except it's not "should." *tu'lu'* has been clearly established as correct.

> And there’s three types of Rovers, only one of which actually roves. 
> The alternative would have been to have had 11 Types instead of 9, 
> with two of the now “Rover” Types having only one suffix in the Type, 
> leaving {-be’} as the only Rover.

What happened to *-qu'?*

> This would suggest that he wanted to avoid having a single suffix 
> listed per Type… except that {-moH} is the only Type 4 suffix, and 
> {-neS} is the only Type 8.

I don't think that's it at all. The suffixes appear in the order they do 
for a reason. You'll note that they frequently mimic in reverse the 
order of elements we add to words in English. Putting *-Ha'* and *-Qo'* 
into the category of "rovers" is just a bit of "Klingons are stubborn" 
humor in the novelty book he wrote.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.kli.org/pipermail/tlhingan-hol-kli.org/attachments/20211109/eae933c4/attachment-0002.htm>

More information about the tlhIngan-Hol mailing list