[tlhIngan Hol] 'eSpanya' 'ewrop je (Beginner's text and questions)
luis.chaparro at web.de
luis.chaparro at web.de
Thu May 27 07:27:18 PDT 2021
>>This was my first attempt, but then I was afraid it could be ambiguous (maybe the readers think Spain is no longer a member and they understand the *SepwIjvaD QaQqu' ghu'vam* as imperfective past). Although... maybe it was a little overly cautious, since context (e.g., the fact that I don't make a contrast between Spain being a member in the past and not being a member in the present) should make it clear. Unfortunately, I don't feel confident enough in Klingon yet to assess that accurately.
>Klingon does not have a distinct imperfective. lochchoHpu' means loch be a member of, -choH change state (from not a member to a member) and -pu' the action (of changing state) is completed.
>Klingon also doesn't mark verbs for tense, so lochchoHpu' might be equally true of the past or future: it became a constituent of; it will have become a constituent of. Your time expression (DIS 1986) tells you which it is.
I was actually referring to *SepwIjvaD QaQqu' ghu'vam*. I thought this sentence (*QaQqu'*) could be understood as imperfective if I don't say that Spain is still a member.
>You will usually want to avoid perfective markers on verbs expressing qualities. They're almost never what you're really trying to express. They do not mean "in the past," and they do not even necessarily mean "no longer true." QaQpu' means you're taking the viewpoint of looking back on something, and saying its goodness is completed. Usually, what you're really trying to say is that at a certain time, something was good. That requires no perfective.
I understand that Klingon doesn't mark verbs for tense, but I think my Spanish mind is making me problems here, since we have (unlike English) an imperfective past tense, so I can say in Spanish both *Esta situación era buena* (*This situation was good*, imperfective) and *Esta situación fue buena* (*This situation was good*, perfective), or *Estaba en la playa* (*I was on the beach*, imperfective) and "*Estuve en la playa* (*I was on the beach*, perfective), depending on what I'm trying to express.
>Saying QaQ lochchoHghach The joining was good doesn't imply that membership continues to be good. It only refers to the time of the change of state, the -choH.
You can be more specific with a time expression. For instance, 'ewrop DIvI' muvpu'DI' 'eSpanya', QaQ ghu' As soon as Spain had joined the European Union, the situation was good. This doesn't say anything about the situation now.
But *QaQ lochchoHghach* can actually mean *The joining is / was (imperfective) / will be good*, right?
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