[tlhIngan Hol] Beginner's text and questions

SuStel sustel at trimboli.name
Fri Jun 18 07:11:04 PDT 2021

On 6/18/2021 9:45 AM, luis.chaparro at web.de wrote:
> DoyIchlanDaq tagha' loQ QaQ muD Dotlh 'ej Hur wItIvlaH. 'ach jImejpa' tlhIngan HolwIj vIqeq vIneH. ghojmeH pov meq motlh luSovlu'bogh. vaj *flamenco* meHghem vIrIch vIneH.
> vatlh DIS poH wa'maH Hut *Andalusia*Daq chenpu' *flamenco*, 'ach mungDaj Sovlu'chu'be'. nger law' tu'lu'. meHghemvam luSIghlaw'pu' nugh pIm. wa' nugh potlh 'oHbejpu' *Romani* nugh'e'.
> muchwI'pu', mI'wI'pu', bomwI'pu' je much 'oH *flamenco*'e'. mIw yItlh pabbe'bogh meHghem nong'e' 'oH.

Stylistic note: why not say *nong meHghem 'ej mIw yItlh pabbe'?* Klingon 
is always better when you use basic sentences instead of copulas. If you 
find you're using copulas with noun phrases that include verb modifiers 
or relative clauses, you're probably thinking in English, or at least 
translating too literally.

>   Dujmey 'agh, le'yo' 'agh.

Do you mean *Duj*/instincts/ here? Don't put *-mey* on it; it's already 
plural. *Dujmey* probably means only /ships./

>   *flamenco* much lubej tlhIngan net jalchugh, chaq luparHa'.
> As usual, I would appreciate any help / correction in order to improve my Klingon. I also have two questions:
> 1. Regarding my first sentence: Is the word order right? I've found this structure in some posts of this email list and on the Klingon Wiki:
> question word - timestamp - noun phrase + Type 5 suffix - adverbial - O - V - S
> But as I understand it, TKD is not very clear about this. Does that structure base on canonical sources? And what about having several adverbials or noun phrases + Type 5 suffix together?

Time expressions come first. See the TKD Addendum, section 6.7. But I 
wouldn't hold it to be completely inviolate, especially since several 
adverbials are themselves time expressions.

So far as we can tell from canon, adverbials, non-pronomial question 
words, and syntactic noun phrases appear to all go in the space between 
time expressions and the object. Separate types of word do not appear to 
have any set order in that space. In my opinion, adverbials have a 
tendency to come before syntactic noun phrases, and non-pronomial 
question words have a tendency to come before adverbials, but that's 
only a hunch of a tendency, not a rule.

> 2. If I want to connect two relative clauses which refer to the same noun, I use *'ej*, but if I want to connect two different nouns each one having a relative clause attached to, then I should use *je*, right? E.g.: *ngeDbogh meq motlh 'ej Dajbogh*, *meq motlh luSovlu'bogh ngeDbogh qechmey Daj je*. By the way: is it allowed to use a noun with a relative clause as part of a noun-noun-construction (eventually using *-'e'* if necessary)?

If you want to separate nouns to have the same relative clause, you need 
to repeat the relative clause and/or conjoin the nouns. So far as I can 
tell, *meq motlh luSovlu'bogh ngeDbogh qechmey Daj je* means /known 
usual reasons and interesting ideas that are easy./ I'm not even sure 
which relative clause you're trying to attach two noun phrases to.

If you want to, say, describe a ship and a person who are both fleeing, 
you could say *Haw'bogh Duj, ghot je,* or you could say *Haw'bogh Duj, 
Haw'bogh ghot je.*


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