[tlhIngan Hol] Beginner's text and questions

[SuStel]

On 7/23/2021 11:36 AM, luis.chaparro at web.de wrote:
> qaStaHvIS wej Hogh ret *Cádiz*Daq maghIQtaH be'nalwI' jIH je.

This says /During three weeks ago, my wife and I were vacationing in 
Cádiz./ I suspect you actually mean either *wej Hogh rej /Cádiz/Daq 
maghIQtaH be'nalwI' jIH je* /Three weeks ago, my wife and I were 
vacationing in Cádiz /or *qaStaHvIS wej Hogh vorgh, maghIQtaH be'nalwI' 
jIH je*/During the last three weeks, my wife and I have been vacationing 
in Cádiz./


> *Cádiz*Daq muvchuq 'atlantIq bIQ'a' *Mediterranean* bIQ'a' je 'ej 'avrI'qa' leghmeH, 'op Daqvo' mIn neH lupoQlu'.

This is a little tricky because we don't fully know all the rules 
involved, but I think you probably want to use *leghlu'meH* to match up 
with the *lupoQlu'.*


> 'ach reH pa' jIHtaHDI', 'avrI'qa'vo' Sumlaw' je 'ewrop 'e' vIqawnIS.

To say that something is /near/*Sum* to something else, you use the 
locative, not the ablative. You did this correctly earlier. 
*'avrI'qa'Daq Sumlaw' je 'ewrop*/Europe is also apparently near Africa./

I'm not exactly sure why you're expressing uncertainty there with *-law'.*


>   Do'Ha' 'ewrop lughoSmeH, SuDqu' QIlbogh nuv law'.

/Unfortunately, in order to go to Europe, many desperate people are very 
near./ I'm not sure that a purpose clause is appropriate here. The many 
desperate people are not near /in order to /go to Europe.


> 1. Is this sentence correct?: *Do'Ha' 'ewrop lughoSmeH, SuDqu' QIlbogh nuv law'.* Or should I say: *'ewrop lughoSmeH, Do'Ha' SuDqu' QIlbogh nuv law'.*? Actually, *Do'Ha'* modifies the whole sentence, but I'm not sure about how it works in Klingon.

I struggle with this as well, but I don't think there's a clear answer. 
Can you split one sentence with a subordinate clause? I dunno.



> 2. Regarding my last post about time context (http://lists.kli.org/pipermail/tlhingan-hol-kli.org/2021-June/017546.html): Sorry, but I'm having more problems with this matter than I've expected. Maybe I'm making it more difficult than it is. When I say *pIj pa' maghIQ* I want to say that we often *go* on vacation there, not that we often *went* (imperfective). As I understand it, if someone says *we often went on vacation there* I expect some explanation about why they don't go there anymore or why they have started going there again or something like this. So, if no such explanation comes, we'll interpret *pIj pa' maghIQ* as present, right? And the same goes for the description of the summer weather in this region. (Of course, the sentences about the position of the seas and the cities are not likely to be interpreted as past without further context).

If I had no context, I'd interpret *pIj pa' maghIQ* as a timeless fact 
and translate it into English simple present tense /(We often vacation 
there)./ If there were more context, like *cha'ben pIj pa' maghIQ,//*I 
would interpret it as a general fact that was true as of the mentioned 
time, and I would translate it into the simple tense appropriate to that 
time (in this case, /Two years ago, we would often vacation there/ or 
/Two years ago, we often vacationed there./)

That's not to say that a lack of context necessarily implies a timeless 
fact. It's just that I wouldn't know any differently if there were no 
context.


> And in a similar way: *Do'Ha' 'ewrop lughoSmeH, SuDqu' QIlbogh nuv law'. nur, yIn qaq je nej. Do'Ha' roD 'ewropDaq ngeDbe' ghu'chaj.* If I wanted to say that many people *risked* (imperfective) their lifes in order to come to Europe, then I would add some temporal context in which this imperfective actions were taking place, like *many years ago* or "during the last two centuries* or something like this. Without further context, the more likely interpretation is present again. Or should I provide some context anyway in order to get the *present* interpretation and, if so, how?

In general, provide context if you care whether your audience knows when 
to place a verb in time. If you don't care, you don't need 
context.*valtIn, tem je yugh bIQSIp HeySel*/The hydrogen atom consists 
of a proton and an electron./ I don't care about time context here, so I 
don't need any, and I don't expect my audience to be looking for any 
temporal position. *be' ghaH mara'e'*/Mara is a woman:/ Likewise, this 
is a timeless fact; as long as there is a Mara, she is a woman. *HoD 
ghaH tlha''a'e' */Klaa is the captain:/ Klaa isn't /always/ the captain, 
but I can probably depend on my audience to know that I'm talking about 
a time when Klaa is captain, so I /probably /don't need to give a time 
context just for that. *qagh vISop:* This becomes trickier. Is there a 
particular time when I eat gagh? Now? The future? Generally? Always? 
Sometimes? Context will answer these questions.//*wa'leS qagh vISop*/I 
will eat gagh tomorrow/ (the future).*not qagh vISop*/I never eat gagh/ 
(a timeless fact). *naH jajwIj qagh vISop*/I ate gagh as a youth/ (a 
general fact limited in time to my youth).

-- 
SuStel
http://trimboli.name

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