[tlhIngan Hol] hard truths about the future
willmartin2 at mac.com
Mon Dec 27 12:05:13 PST 2021
Someone should say this:
Paramount doesn’t really own the Klingon language because languages are not really intellectual property, but I’m not sure that Paramount’s lawyers care whether that’s true or not. They are quite capably of “protecting their intellectual property” at a cost that would destroy us even if they were unsuccessful. They can easily abuse “discovery” requirements forcing us to provide absurd quantities of evidence we lack the resources to collect, causing us to forfeit any legal case they choose to provide simply because we can’t afford to be in the same courtroom they are in.
The KLI has secured a license from Paramount to use the Klingon language. That’s nothing to sneeze at.
That’s why Paramount’s publisher has published all the Klingon stuff, and that’s why a certain book on Klingon martial arts that some people have illegal copies of, was printed, but not legally published because of a court case that required all copies be destroyed. That’s why the first “completed” translation of the New Testament is not on bookshelves next to The Klingon Hamlet.
So, brushing off the KLI as if they were an annoyance somehow standing in the way of progress of The Way Things Should Be is a little short-sighted.
It’s not like membership is exclusive. If you want in, you pretty much are in. Dues aren’t particularly egregious. And years of experience with the language is not a spectacularly bad thing.
The KLI has made honest effort to keep the language consistent and foster its progress in a reasonably organized way. They have proven their willingness and ability to handle this responsibility, and you seem to want them to be booted out of the way, by default, from a proposed committee of people who will… start doing what Okrand and the KLI have been doing for decades?
Because… being enthusiastic is more valuable than decades of experience… among people who are… enthusiastic?
I’m not even a member anymore, and I don’t want to be on such a committee, but I have to speak up for the KLI.
You don’t scrap the KLI and start over from scratch. You just don’t. You can grow the KLI toward some new direction, just as every group evolves, but you don’t self-righteously piss on the KLI.
You just don’t.
Stop fantasizing that as Step One of some new process where The People get to run the language.
The People can join the KLI.
That’s Step One.
> On Dec 26, 2021, at 10:14 AM, Iikka Hauhio <fergusq at protonmail.com> wrote:
> If a committee was formed, it should represent the community as a larger whole.
> As Tim Stoffel said, "enthusiasts", not "experts". As Okrand himself said, those
> who use the language should influence its development. Not all members must have
> linguistic background (although some of them should).
> I don't want the committee to be formed from a clique of friends that have known
> each other for decades. Instead, it should have members from different backgrounds.
> The procedure for appointing a member should be open and transparent and handled
> by a neutral body (so not for example the current KLI that is a private corporation
> not governed by the community).
> As for word requests, I want to believe that Klingon is a language one can use to
> say anything. If that is true, any word request should be able to be answered, as
> of course one should be able to say the requested thing in Klingon. But the answer
> might not be a new word, it might be an existing word or phrase that can be used for
> that purpose.
> To make sure that no one person can change the language, making up new words or grammar
> should require a majority vote or an unanimous decision, depending on the impact of
> the proposed change.
> I believe that all these things can be solved by the community. The resulting language
> will not be Okrand's Klingon anymore, and it will be disappointing, but we should be
> able to move on. The new Klingon could be compared to eg. Latin. There is the historical
> Latin, and then there is a new Latin that the scientific community, the Vatican and
> other groups have expanded to cover new concepts that didn't exist when Latin was a
> living language.
> Iikka "fergusq" Hauhio
> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
> On Sunday, December 26th, 2021 at 13.48, mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Returning to the original subject, there's the matter of objectivity
>> of such a committee which needs to be discussed.
>> A fan asks for a word, and the committee responds that such a word is
>> unnecessary. But one can wonder:
>> 1. If a member of that committee is hired by lets say a software
>> company, in order to translate something for them, and a new word is
>> needed, then what will that committee member think of first? The needs
>> of the language, or the needs of his bank account?
>> 2. Would someone who's into klingon professionaly accept to join such
>> a committee in the first place, if the prerequisite was not to use
>> klingon professionaly, in order to ensure his objectivity?
>> 3. Any member of such a commitee could deny the request of an simple,
>> ordinary fan. But if another member of the same committee wanted a
>> word, then would the other members deny the request of their buddies?
>> Because chances are that the people of that committee would already
>> know each other for decades.
>> QIn tlheghvam Soj wa'DIch vIDIghqa'. wuqtaHvIS Sarvam yej, yejvam SIghbe'lu''a'?
>> wa' mu' chu' HevmeH wa' Hol vIlle', tlhob, 'a tagha' jang yejvam: <
>> 'utbe' mu'vam >. 'a SIvchoH vay':
>> 1. nIqHom malja'vaD vay' mughmeH wa' yejvam jeSwI', nuvvam DIl
>> malja'vam, 'ej ngoQvam chavmeH nuvvam, mu' chu' chennISmoH nuvvam;
>> chay' ngugh vang nuvvam? wa'DIch nuq qel 'ej buS? mu'mey'e'
>> ghajnISbogh Hol qel'a' 'ej buS'a'? beylI' HuchDaj qel'a' 'ej buS'a'?
>> 2. nuvvam SIghbe'lu'meH, - Sarvam yejDaq jeStaHvIS - not Holmo' Huch
>> HevnISqa'chugh nuvvam, DuHvam lajqang'a' nuvvam, Sarvam yejDaq
>> 3. vIlle' motlh, vIlle' le'be' chabal lajlaHQo' Sarvam yej jeSwI'. 'a
>> yejvam jeSwI' chabal lulajlaHQo''a' latlh yejvam jeSwI'? maqochchaj
>> lubelHa'qangmoH'a' latlh yejvam jeSwI'? yejvamDaq jeSchoHpu'pa' 'op,
>> qaStaHvIS maH DIS poH law', juppu' chaHchugh, chay' wa' nuv chabal
>> lajlaHQo' latlh?
>> Ζεὺς ἦν, Ζεὺς ἐστίν, Ζεὺς ἔσσεται· ὦ μεγάλε Ζεῦ
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>> tlhIngan-Hol at lists.kli.org
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