[tlhIngan Hol] hard truths about the future

[Iikka Hauhio]

I agree with you that just knowing how to speak a language doesn't make one an expert.

However, there might be more experts than you think. I don't remember seeing you a lot
in Discord or in weekly meetings (qa'vIn qep, jawmeH qep). I also know people who are
very interested in Klingon, but don't for some reason want to use social media and
only participate in local face-to-face meetings. I just yesterday started using this mailing
list and it seems that people here do not represent the larger community at all.

If a committee was to be created, I also think it should have "non-expert" members who
use the language a lot. There are several groups that I think should have possibility
to influence the language. For example, in the qep'a' the LGBT vocabulary working group
had several members with lower KLCP levels, but they are the people who need that
vocabulary most, so it is fair that they can participate. Another group is non-English
speakers like you and me. I think having people with different mother tongues would
be beneficial for trying to avoid anglicisms and other biases.

I would support some kind of democratic process for electing the committee members.
What I fear the most is that either an outside party like Paramount/CBS decides the fate
of the language, or that a small clique of friends proclaims to be in charge now and the
rest of the community is left without representation. Of course this democratic process
should take in to account the level of expertness.

Iikka "fergusq" Hauhio
https://klingonia.fi

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐

On Wednesday, December 22nd, 2021 at 13.51, mayqel qunen'oS mihkoun at gmail.com wrote:

> e
>
> If there is a concept in the klingon speaking community which is
>
> systematically misunderstood and misapplied, it is the concept of an
>
> "expert". So let's make something clear.
>
> The fact that you've translated subtitles doesn't make you an expert.
>
> The fact that you've translated whole texts doesn't make you an expert.
>
> The fact that you've worked on a klingon learning app doesn't make you
>
> an expert.
>
> All these can serve to dazzle beginners in facebook, but again
>
> dazzling beginners in facebook doesn't make you an expert. At best
>
> you're fluent. But there's an abyss separating fluency from being an
>
> expert. I speak greek fluently, but I'm not an expert on the greek
>
> language.
>
> An expert isn't just someone who's fluent; an expert is someone with a
>
> deeper insight/understanding of how things work. An expert is someone
>
> able to answer the hard questions. And it's really sad to see so many
>
> worshiping people who have never answered a difficult question.
>
> As long as I can remember, the only two people who have demonstrated
>
> the ability to answer questions which no one else couldn't are SuStel
>
> and De'vID, and they are the only ones who I consider to be experts in
>
> the true sense of the word.
>
> Of course, someone can say.. "There are definitely people of similar
>
> skill, but they are inactive".
>
> True; there may be people of SuStel/De'vID skill in the community who
>
> for whatever reason choose to remain silent for years. But now I ask..
>
> If for whatever reason you chose to remain silent for years, although
>
> you are a true expert, then why would you be willing to become active
>
> again as a member of some "klingon language committee"? Did your
>
> life's circumstances just happen to change, on the day okrand chose to
>
> retire, allowing you to grace us with your immense grasp of the
>
> language? Or is it something else that you seek?
>
> And this now is the important question.. "What will be the true
>
> purposes of some of the people who will try to replace okrand"?
>
> But this is the subject of the next post
>
> t
>
> tlhIngan nughDaq wa' mu' yajHa'lu'chu'bogh 'ej lo'Ha'lu'chu'bogh
>
> tu'lu'chugh, {po'wI'} 'oH mu'vam'e'. vaj vay' vIQIjnISchu':
>
> SoHvaD po'wI' nImojmoHbe' mughbogh per DachenmoHpu'.
>
> SoHvaD po'wI' nImojmoHbe' tlhIngan Hol ghItlh Damughpu'bogh.
>
> SoHvaD po'wI' nImojmoHbe' tlhIngan Hol ghojmeH nIqHom mu'tlhegh Daqonpu'bogh.
>
> Doj Hochvam 'e' luHarlaH facebook taghwI', 'a vabDot qaSchugh ghu'vam,
>
> po'wI' Damojpu'be'. chaq Hol Dalo'laHchu', 'a pImchu' {Hol
>
> lo'laHchu'wI'} {po'wI'} je. 'elaDya' Hol vIjatlhchu', 'a 'elaDya' Hol
>
> po'wI' jIHbe'bej.
>
> vabDot Hol lo'laHchu'chugh vay', ghaHvaD po'wI' mojmoHbe' ngoDvam.
>
> po'wI'na' ghaHmeH vay''e', Hol pab yajchu' net poQ, 'ej vay' Qatlh
>
> yajmeH nuv, gheltaHvIS nuvvam, nuvvamvaD janglaHchu' po'wI'vam net
>
> pIH. 'a vay' Qatlh luyajmeH 'op, gheltaHvIS 'opvam, not janglaHpu'
>
> latlhpu', 'ej Do'Ha' latlhpu'vam QejqangtaH 'op.
>
> qaStaHvIS poH Hoch vIqawlaHbogh, Qatlhbogh pab Sojmey DIghlaH cha' nuv
>
> neH: SuStel De'vID je. pab Soj Qatlh DIghlaH pagh latlh. 'ej SuStelvaD
>
> De'vIDvaD je neH po'wI'pu'na' vIDam.
>
> 'a DaH chaq jatlhqang vay': < SuStel De'vID je laH lughajbogh latlh
>
> tu'lu' je, 'a jeSbe' nuvpu'vam. >
>
> teH; chaq tlhIngan jatlhwI' nughDaq SuStel De'vID je laH lu'aghlaHbogh
>
> nuv tu'lu', 'ej nuvpu'vam jeSqangbe'moH vay' Sovbe'lu'bogh. 'a DaH
>
> jIghel:
>
> < po'wI'na' SoH, 'ej qaStaHvIS DIS law'qu', bItamtaH 'e' DawIv; maj.
>
> qatlh pay' bIchoHpu'? hmm? qatlh pay' tlhIngan Hol yejDaq
>
> bIjeSqangchoHpu'? pajpu'DI' 'oqranD, ngugh choHchu'pu''a' yInlIj
>
> ghu'mey? pajpu'DI' 'oqranD, ngugh maHvaD Sov'a'lIj DabonqangchoHpu'?
>
> ..pagh qaS'a' pImchu'bogh vay'? >
>
> 'ej DaH potlhchu'bogh vay' wIghojmeH, maghelnIS: < nuq bIH 'oqranD
>
> lugheSbogh 'op nuv ngoQna''e'? >
>
> 'a QIn vebDaq Sojvam vIDIgh.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Dana'an
>
> https://sacredtextsinklingon.wordpress.com/
>
> Ζεὺς ἦν, Ζεὺς ἐστίν, Ζεὺς ἔσσεται· ὦ μεγάλε Ζεῦ
>
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>
> tlhIngan-Hol at lists.kli.org
>
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