[tlhIngan Hol] {-DI'} and {-chugh} with {vaj} and {ghIq}/{ngugh}

SuStel sustel at trimboli.name
Thu Apr 15 06:02:03 PDT 2021


On 4/15/2021 7:52 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
> choqIpDI', ghIq/ngugh pagh qa'atmoH
> as soon as you hit me, at that time/subsequently I'll disinherit you
>
> choqIpchugh, vaj pagh qa'atmoH
> if you hit me, in that case I'll disinherit you
>
> cha' tlhIngan mu'tlheghvam vorgh vIlaDtaHvIS, jumbogh pagh vIjem. 'a 
> DaH jIqon:
>
> choqIpDI', vaj pagh qa'atmoH
> as soon as you hit me, in that case I'll disinherit you
>
> choqIpchugh, ghIq/ngugh qa'atmoH
> if you hit me, at that time/subsequently I'll disinherit you
>
> cha' tlhIngan mu'tlheghvam vIlaDtaHvIS, jumlaw' vay', 'a pagh pab chut 
> lubIv.
>
> vaj merghchugh {-DI'} {vaj} je, 'ej merghchugh {-chugh} {ghIq/ngugh} 
> je, lugh'a'?

There are a couple of things going on here.

First, I'm going to use *'atHa'moH* for /disinherit./

Next, *-DI'* means /as soon as/ in the sense of when something happens, 
not /if/ something happens. The thing you're describing may or may not 
actually happen, but *-DI'* lets you describe /when/ it happens.

Meanwhile, *vaj* introduces a consequence of something or a conclusion, 
and *ngugh* refers back to a time already mentioned.

So if you say *choqIpchugh, ngugh qa'atHa'moH,* you're referring back to 
a time you haven't set up. Sure, you can figure out that you mean the 
time I get hit, but you didn't actually /say/ that.

Likewise, if you say *choqIpDI', vaj qa'atHa'moH,* you're setting up the 
disinheriting as a consequence of some other action or a conclusion 
based on other information, but you haven't actually said what that 
action or information was. Sure, you can figure out that the action 
mentioned in the time of hitting is what you're talking about, but 
that's not what you actually said.

And finally, using *vaj* or *ngugh* here is redundant anyway.

*choqIpchugh, qa'atHa'moH*/If you hit me, I'll disinherit you.
/*choqIpDI', qa'atHa'moH*/When you hit me, I'll disinherit you./

These sentences mean exactly what you want without the adverbial. Yes, 
Okrand often includes a redundant *vaj* after a *-chugh* clause, so I 
won't tell you not to do it, but I do say you should carefully consider 
just why you're adding these adverbials at all. Is it perhaps to mimic 
Greek or English?

-- 
SuStel
http://trimboli.name

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