[tlhIngan Hol] Beginner questions - SAO, SAS and pronouns
willmartin2 at mac.com
Tue Sep 29 06:13:10 PDT 2020
Most modern languages have punctuation, so we tend to assume that writing always includes punctuation. Many older languages lacked it. My understanding is that it is a relatively new addition to Japanese, and even there it is considered optional.
The Romanized Klingon writing that we use is phonetic, representing Klingon sounds. Adding punctuation is probably an incremental step toward a detailed musical notation for Klingon speech that could include pitch and amplitude, as well as tempo and rhythm.
It merely adds a sense of phrasing and clarity, but it really is not tied to the grammar the same way it is in normal written languages. It’s optional in Klingon.
I like it, because it makes Klingon text easier to parse, but for SAO, Okrand tells us that in Klingon you definitely have two grammatically independent sentences, though it is usually translated into English as one sentence. So, do you punctuate it according to Klingon grammar, or do you punctuate it according to how it will be translated by those who are reading the Romanized written Klingon, which, you might consider, an actual Klingon speaker probably couldn’t read…
In other words, you are not punctuating it for a Klingon. You are punctuating it for an alien race of people trying to communicate in the Klingon language. That’s why it’s not important to put a period between the two sentences in SAO. You’ll find that it’s actually quite uncommon to do so among writers here.
rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.
> On Sep 29, 2020, at 6:47 AM, Luis Chaparro Caballero <luis.chaparro at web.de> wrote:
> Thank you for your detailed email! I understand it now much better.
> I have only two last questions:
>> Pronouns can and usually should be dropped when they're acting as nouns, but nouns shouldn't be turned into pronouns unless you've already made clear what the pronoun is.
> I understand what you mean when you explain the use of pronouns for clarity. But then I don't understand what TKD means with "for emphasis".
>> "Pronouns may be used as nouns, but only for emphasis or added clarity. They are not required."
> *yaS vIlegh jIH'e'* means "I, and not someone else, see the officer". That's clear, that's a semantic focus. But is there absolutly no difference between *yaS vIlegh* and *yaS vIlegh jIH*? I'm a Spanish native speaker and in Spanish personal pronouns are mostly not necessary. When we use them, we do it in order to clarify or to make them somehow "important" in the conversation. If we want to get the "and no someone else" effect, then we stress the pronoun or actually say "and not someone else", but without this extra stress saying a pronoun when it's not necessary to clarify just give it some "importance". For example, we have to print some documents and I say: "*I* have a printer at home". In Spanish I use the pronoun because the person who has a printer is here "important". But that's not the same as saying: "I, and not someone else here, have a printer at home". I would say it if someone is lying and saying he or she has a printer, but I know that only I have one.
> Well, that doesn't mean it must be so in Klingon too, of course. I'm only trying to understand, since I'm a beginner and I cannot judge what's right or not in Klingon.
> My second question is again about punctuation. I have understood that these sentences have the same meaning:
> *paq Daje'pu' 'e' vISov*
> *paq Daje'pu'. 'e' vISov*
> But is there no difference even if someone makes a longer pause when speaking? Something like in English: "I want to eat something and then I will read" and "I want to eat something. And then I will read".
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