[tlhIngan Hol] Klingon for "deference" (the legal term)?

Thu Mar 12 07:57:59 PDT 2020

*x* vuD wISov wIneH           We wish (want) to know *x*'s opinion

Does that work better? Other forms:

*x *vuD vISov vIneH             I want to know x's opinion
*x *vuD DaSov DaneH          You want to know x's opinion
*x *vuD luSov luneH             They want to know x's opinion
*x *vuD boSov boneH            Y'all want to know x's opinion
*x *vuD DISov wIneH            We want to know x's opinions

Also, as has been pointed out, *you *might prove useful:

noHwI'vetlh yoj wIpoQ         We require that judge's judgement

I don't think *ma' *is really useful in this context.

Le jeu. 12 mars 2020, à 09 h 49, Will Martin <willmartin2 at mac.com> a écrit :

> Combining this perspective with SuStel’s earlier suggestion, maybe
> something like:
>
> bo’DIj yoj wIpIHbogh wIma’.
>
> We accommodate what we expect to be the court’s judgement.
>
> Alternatively, to use a word with historically grammatical significance:
>
> bo’DIj naDHa’ghach wIjun.
>
> We evade the court’s disapproval.
>
> charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan
>
> rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.
>
> On Mar 12, 2020, at 10:21 AM, Sai <conlangs at saizai.com> wrote:
>
> In short, "deference" is used to refer to the level to which a court
> should let a prior decision or interpretation control, rather than deciding
> the question for itself.
>
>
> Here's an imaginary scenario that covers the two major forms:
>
> Suppose that Congress passes a law saying "no cars are allowed in national
> parks unless they pay a registration fee". It creates a National Park DMV
> to enforce this law.
>
> The NP-DMV issues a regulation saying that "car" means "any four wheeled
> vehicle not propelled by humans". An Amish horse-cart driver and an 8-wheel
> trucker both get fined by the NP-DMV driving those things in a national
> park without having paid.
>
> The court gives deference as follows:
> a) Chevron deference: if "non-human-propelled 4-wheel vehicle" is a
> reasonable interpretation of "car", then it gives deference to that
> interpretation, i.e. it uses that definition even if it would use a
> different definition if it were considering the matter itself.
>
> Therefore, the Amish driver has to pay, because the horse-cart isn't
> human-propelled (it's horse-propelled). I.e. the court "gives deference" to
> the agency's interpretation.
>
> b) Auer deference: if the application of the regulation is reasonable, it
> gives deference to that too; i.e. it uses the agency's factual
> determinations even if it would have arrived at a different conclusion
> given the evidence, unless it's contradictory
>
> Therefore, the trucker does not have to pay, because a big truck is not
> 4-wheeled. I.e. the court does not give deference to the agency's
> interpretation (because it's contradictory).
>
>
> It's always retrospective. It doesn't cover e.g. the court saying "I'm
> going to pass; agency, you decide this" or "hey agency what do you think"
> (though both would be *given* some level of deference once received, the
> request isn't considered to be part of it).
>
> Sincerely,
> Sai
> Founder, Language Creation Society
>
> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
> On Thursday, March 12, 2020 1:41 PM, Lieven L. Litaer <levinius at gmx.de>
> wrote:
>
> I'll leave it to experts of the English language to answer that
> question, because I'm not so sure about its meaning.
>
> But generally spoken, it's always a bit stupid to say "there is no
> Klingon word for X", because in many situations, there might indeed be
> no word, but it's still possible to express the same idea. A simple
> example is that there is no verb "love", but {muSHa'} perfectly conveys
> the idea.
>
> Regarding "reference", which seems to be some kind of respect, the first
> thing that comes to my mind is the verb {vuv} "respect", the verb {yI'}
> "speak in honorable fashion" and the noun {gha'tlhIq} "ode of respect".
>
> But I might be wrong ybput the definition of "reference", and I'm not a
> lawyer.
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Lieven L. Litaer
> aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany"
> http://www.klingonisch.de
> http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/StarTrekDiscovery
>
> Am 12.03.2020 um 14:27 schrieb Sai:
>
> Norwood v. Vance, 572 F. 3d 626, 630 (9th Cir. 2009) says:
> "The district court declined to give the proposed instruction because the
> meaning of deference would not be "clear to a lay person." But "deference"
> is not Urdu or Klingon; it is a common English word. See, e.g., Michael
> Crichton, Airframe 78 (1996) ("[S]he certainly knew where all the bodies
> were buried. Within the company, she was treated with a deference bordering
> on fear."). It may be true that deference has varied meanings, Dissent at
> 8515 n. 4, but so do most English words. If the district judge believed the
> term needed further context or definition, he could have provided it."
> dissent n. 4:
> "(I must, however, acknowledge that the majority is quite correct in
> intuiting that, unsurprisingly, there is no Klingon word for "deference."
> See generally Marc Okrand, THE KLINGON DICTIONARY (Star Trek 1992)"
> https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=7908441514095692961
> Black's Law Dictionary (9th Ed. 2009) defines:
> defer, vb. (17c) 2. To show deference to (another); to yield to the
> opinion of <because it was a political question, the courts deferred to the
> legislature>.
> due deference. The appropriate degree of respect with which a reviewing
> authority must consider the decision of a primary decision-maker.
> Chevron deference. A two-part test under which a court will uphold a
> federal agency's construction of a federal statute if (1) the statute is
> ambiguous or does not address the question at issue, and (2) the agency's
> interpretation of the statute is reasonable.• If the court finds that the
> legislature's intent is clearly expressed in the statute, then that intent
> is upheld.
> So: what, if anything, is Klingon for "deference"?
> If there isn't a word/phrase for it, and circumlocution would be
> culturally permitted, what would that be?
> Sincerely,
> Sai
> Founder, Language Creation Society
>
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